The upgrade has begun! New tank purchased, now I need some plumbing advice…

Osteomata

New member
After talking about it for months, I have finally taken the first real step in my tank upgrade (going from a 54 corner): I purchased a used 150 this weekend. Now I need some advice on plumbing and flow.

The tank is 72x18x28, pre-drill with a center overflow (truly centered, like you would for a 4 side viewable or room divider tank). The overflow has three 1” bulkheads. In addition to these three holes, there are two additional 1” bulkheads, one about 18” from each end of the tank. Let me do the math for you: that’s a total of five 1” bulkheads in the bottom of the tank, three in the single center overflow, and one on each end.
The tank will be a mixed reef. The goals for my tank, roughly in priority order:
1) Simplicity and reliability. Minimum number of things that can go wrong, few moving parts, automated.
2) Economy of electrical usage. The less watts the better, the less heat the better.
3) Good God that’s tank is beautiful. (Desired reaction)

So what to do with this. I have come up with three options:
1) Standard Durso overflow to a refugium/sump with a single return in the center overflow, combined with a 1 out, 2 in closed loop, probably hooked to a SCWD. Overflow limitations might make this awkward, as in the “out” section of the closed loop would probably have to come from one of the end holes vice the center.
2) Use all three holes in the center overflow for a “Smiley” rig: A full siphon from one hole, back up siphon from the second, and return in the third. Combine this with a 1 out 1 in closed loop. Some of you might not be familiar with this Smiley thing, but it works awesome, and is dead quiet. No gurgle, no noise, no air. Back up siphon makes it safe.
3) Standard Durso and single return from the center, 1 out 1 in closed loop. Use the third hole in the center overflow to run electrical cables to wherever. (That’s what original owner apparently used the third hole for)

So what do you think? Any options I’m forgetting? What would you do, be as specific as you are willing down to the pump choices etc.

- Jack
 
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yeah I have an opinion.....WHAT ??? :D...........SORRY COULDN'T HOLD IT!
you seem to be off to a good start, i will keep away from close loops and just use internal pumps, like tunzes.
What is a Smiley rig?
 
hehehe, is this in response to my " let me do the math for you" comment? I meant it to be humorous, but I was kinda afraid some might take it as ... arrogant.

In any case, the Smily rig, and Im not sure I am remembering the name correctly, is essentially a method of overflow that uses a full siphon from a fairly low set standpipe in an overflow, and depends upon a careful matching of return flow and overflow. The method of control is a valve in the overflow. Disaster is averted by using a back up standpipe set higher than the main overflow. Noremaly , this pipe is completely dry, and would only come into play if the main pipe clogs. The system, once set properly, is dang near self regulating. I half to tweak my overflow valve once every couple of weeks.
 
Jack I didn't take it as arrogant, I guess I've just got a long & hard day between school start day & work and your thread had too much information for me to digest fast enough :D
I think that you are referring to the Herbie's SOS (silent overflow system) when you talk about the Smiley rig, I will think that you need to be more specific on how are you going to set up this tank, it is unusual the way the overflow is set up and would be nice if you can do a walk around tank, if so then I will use that third pipe to rig wires up to the canopy.
 
For the Closed Loop, you will probably want more flow than a single SCWD will offer. The SCWD is only rated at 1400 gph..What I did to overcome that was to have 4 outlets for one pump, 2 hooked up to the scwd, and 2 that are open all the time. If you do not want to drill additional bulkheads, you can always run the intake and 2 additional outputs over the side if you are not going to run the tank as an "island".
 
Oh forgot to mention that you will probably want to use ball-valves to control the flow at each outlet.
 
Using a closed loop pretty much negates the cost effective part. CL's are alot more expensive on power in the long run and If I recall correctly usually add more heat tot he tank than Power heads as well.
 
I ugess I should have stated in the post: No new holes, no over the side plumbing. Restricted by the 5 holes already in the tank.

tperk I will have to take a look at the watt/cost effectiveness of the closed loop now that you metnion it. Thanks for that heads up.

Rogger, you are correct, its the Herbie thing I was trying to remember. Herbie, smiley, ok, sue me. ;)
 
cl vs. powerheads

cl vs. powerheads

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10600173#post10600173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tperk9784
Using a closed loop pretty much negates the cost effective part. CL's are alot more expensive on power in the long run and If I recall correctly usually add more heat tot he tank than Power heads as well.

I would think just the opposite would be true.

In a CL, much of the heat is dissipated into the room. With a PH, 100% of the heat stays in the water.

Secondly, with an external pump, you can buy a much larger unit which i would imagine would be more cost efficient electric-wise then a couple PH's.
 
Re: cl vs. powerheads

Re: cl vs. powerheads

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10605300#post10605300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davester1
I would think just the opposite would be true.

In a CL, much of the heat is dissipated into the room. With a PH, 100% of the heat stays in the water.

Secondly, with an external pump, you can buy a much larger unit which i would imagine would be more cost efficient electric-wise then a couple PH's.

Dave, depending on the pump there may be powerheads that dissipate more heat than an external pump would, However gal per gal Tunze streamers are way more efficient than the outside pumps, also, the high flow they put out is spread in a very wide stream that allows you to place it relatively close to your livestock with out any harm.
 
As much as I hate to agree with a Democrat I have to in this particular subject.
CL VS TUNZE. Although I might do a cl next time around for kicks. no worries about FPL
 
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As anyone here I can attest to CL's. I have a 3 side view tank(room divider 2 long panels 1 end)
With out a question NOTHING beats the tunze type powerheads for flow pattern and gallon per watt. A tunze 6101 is almost 3200 gph for 32 watts and the 6201 is 5283gph for 55 watts. at the best the dart with no plumbing is 3500 gph for 160w's. The hammer head is 350w for 5800gph so there is no question which is the most efficient. The added positive is the ease at which you can remove and redirect them as your corals grow out.
That being said I had the size and look of powerheads. I also don't like having plumbing shown in the tank. so with my tank I did a dart closed loop under the tank with 4 openings and 2 tunze 6100's in the deco rocks and a seq 4100 for my return so you don't really see the powerheads ,my closed loop all you see is the two return lines which couldn't be helped.
So what I'm saying is if your going for straight gph vs watt go ph's
if you like hidden go CL or do what I did and do both where its needed. Anyone who would like to see it feel free to come over. I run about 12000 gph at peak which is a 21 x turnover for my 560 display for 404 watts and have only 1500gph though my 240/g sump which is 6 times turnover. ( would have liked less. you only want just enough to feed skimmer going through your sump)



here you can see the closed loops before I added the loc line arms


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here is the fitting i used to split them


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here is my return the only plumbing you see in my tank






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closed loop from under tank



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can anyone find my cl in this pic?


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Its to the right and right above the yellow tang to the left (orange Shoulder)

here is the full tank shot all you see it the return lines on top left no CL and in the bottom right you can see the new deco rocks before they encrusted and turned purple



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Hope this helps





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One more thing... don't forget to consider the Vortechs. No heat in the water and I can personally attest that they rock. Have 2 in my 92 gallon corner.
 
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