The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[sde1500]

The whole coral pricing has become a joke

I was just at a LFS that had a half inch frag of GSP for $30. ***. I sold a fellow reefer a 5"x5" sheet for $10.

Not really an apt comparison. LFS needs to cover costs and make money. GSP probably isn't a money maker at $10.

This thread is turning into a bash anyone with a price you don't agree with thread.

 

[PIPSTER]

There is a difference between profit and covering expenses....

No, there is not.

No profit, no staying in business.

That's how it really works.

How much the profit is isn't anyone's business but the buyer's and seller's.
:love1:

 

[Reef Frog]

That's right. No business person risks so much just to cover expenses. They are in search of a profit. That is not a sin or unethical. I never realized how much widespread misunderstandingof capitalism is out there. Just don't be a sucker and over pay for some stupid zoanthid polyp because some carnival barker says it's rare or whatever. If it's not rare, you can find it at a reasonable market price. Don't be a Clark Griswald and get suckered into the Pea soup green station wagon.

Profit. Sellers want as much of it as they can get. Competition keeps that price from getting out of control - in fact it usually drives prices way down - and makes the goods accessible to a larger pool of humanity. Look at PCs & big screen TVs. It's a beautiful self regulating mechanism most of the time unless there is illegal price fixing, and we have a fearsome apparatus known as the US Gov't that deals with that. I can't imagine all of the drag sellers out there are engaging in a conspiracy. But in cases of genuine rarity & high demand, prices will be high and that's just the way it is.

 

[Reef Frog]

double post. Using the classic web site on a phone with marginal signal. Oops.

 

[SeattleReefer]

It might be interesting to calculate the cost of that GSP frag that Kendrid sold for $10.


Pure guestimates....
cost of initial GSP frag introduced into Kendrid's tank = $5
6 months to grow that tiny frag into a 5"x5" square...(estimate)
6 months x $100/mo for electricity= $600
6 months x $20/mo for water changes= $120
6 months worth of test kit chemicals= $50
6 months labor for testing, water changes, and equipment maintenance = I dunno, let's say 40 hrs @ $15/hr = $600
6 months capitalized cost of equipment (aquarium, filters, lighting, etc). Typical aquarium = $2000, lets capitalize it over 5 years ($2000/60 mo * 6 mo = $200

so... assuming that Kendrid sold no other frags from his tank (which would lower his COGS by spreading the cost over more units sold) that single 5"x5" GSP frag might have cost Kendrid...........

$1575 !!!!!

Change these guestimates all you like but the fact remains, there is NO WAY to produce a 5" x 5" GSP frag for $10.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

There is a sucker born every minute. Living in Central Florida we have plenty of stores, some are better than others. The prices of these corals are ridiculous. The coral is only worth what someone is willing to pay. There are plenty of fools out there who will buy some bogus named corals. All this stuff comes from the same wholesalers. Then the store comes up with some crazy name like crazy vagina lips and everyone must have them. The best part is all the same corals

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/ac/index.php

I agree my friend, these prices ARE utterly ridiculous and totally out of hand. This use to be a hobby for everyone and readily enjoyed by all, until greed was discovered.

Mooch

 

[reefwars]

That's right. No business person risks so much just to cover expenses. They are in search of a profit. That is not a sin or unethical. I never realized how much widespread misunderstandingof capitalism is out there. Just don't be a sucker and over pay for some stupid zoanthid polyp because some carnival barker says it's rare or whatever. If it's not rare, you can find it at a reasonable market price. Don't be a Clark Griswald and get suckered into the Pea soup green station wagon.

Profit. Sellers want as much of it as they can get. Competition keeps that price from getting out of control - in fact it usually drives prices way down - and makes the goods accessible to a larger pool of humanity. Look at PCs & big screen TVs. It's a beautiful self regulating mechanism most of the time unless there is illegal price fixing, and we have a fearsome apparatus known as the US Gov't that deals with that. I can't imagine all of the drag sellers out there are engaging in a conspiracy. But in cases of genuine rarity & high demand, prices will be high and that's just the way it is.

I think you nailed it

 

[kozmic]

It might be interesting to calculate the cost of that GSP frag that Kendrid sold for $10.


Pure guestimates....
cost of initial GSP frag introduced into Kendrid's tank = $5
6 months to grow that tiny frag into a 5"x5" square...(estimate)
6 months x $100/mo for electricity= $600
6 months x $20/mo for water changes= $120
6 months worth of test kit chemicals= $50
6 months labor for testing, water changes, and equipment maintenance = I dunno, let's say 40 hrs @ $15/hr = $600
6 months capitalized cost of equipment (aquarium, filters, lighting, etc). Typical aquarium = $2000, lets capitalize it over 5 years ($2000/60 mo * 6 mo = $200

so... assuming that Kendrid sold no other frags from his tank (which would lower his COGS by spreading the cost over more units sold) that single 5"x5" GSP frag might have cost Kendrid...........

$1575 !!!!!

Change these guestimates all you like but the fact remains, there is NO WAY to produce a 5" x 5" GSP frag for $10.

That's right. No business person risks so much just to cover expenses. They are in search of a profit. That is not a sin or unethical. I never realized how much widespread misunderstandingof capitalism is out there. Just don't be a sucker and over pay for some stupid zoanthid polyp because some carnival barker says it's rare or whatever. If it's not rare, you can find it at a reasonable market price. Don't be a Clark Griswald and get suckered into the Pea soup green station wagon.

Profit. Sellers want as much of it as they can get. Competition keeps that price from getting out of control - in fact it usually drives prices way down - and makes the goods accessible to a larger pool of humanity. Look at PCs & big screen TVs. It's a beautiful self regulating mechanism most of the time unless there is illegal price fixing, and we have a fearsome apparatus known as the US Gov't that deals with that. I can't imagine all of the drag sellers out there are engaging in a conspiracy. But in cases of genuine rarity & high demand, prices will be high and that's just the way it is.

I think you nailed it

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[kozmic]

This thread needs to be locked... it is just going in circles... :spin2:

 

[sde1500]

This thread needs to be locked... it is just going in circles... :spin2:

Lol it really is. Those that think prices are too high are all agreeing and those that don't see as much of a problem are as well.

The one thing I don't understand is the outright dismissal of any other possible reason for higher prices other than "gouging". There was a whole list quoted earlier, and some seem legitimate. And instead of considering it, the response is not much more than "psh seriously? No".

3rd major coral reef bleaching in the last 20 years. Something like 90% of the reefs bleached, and that's brushed aside as a dumb excuse to defend gouging and greed. What?

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Ladies and gents, it's a discussion/debate and no one is forced to look at it. Sometimes it's best to just respectfully look away and not click on the thread instead of trying to censor free speech on a topic you may or may not agree with.

Over 600 replies and 31,000 views thus far.

Reefers are enjoying this thread, they're learning and being enlightened by this thread on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[kozmic]

instead of trying to censor free speech...

...Over 600 replies and 31,000 views thus far.

lol... you said it... "over 600 replies". Doesn't appear to be censoring anyone's free speech, but there is a saying about beating a horse to death and what not...

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Oh come on my friend, every thread is beaten to death.

Boat drinks my friend....boat drinks :beer:

How bout it?

 

[Kentech5]

Went to a club member's house to sell him a light and check out the frags he had for sale. He had impressive tanks crammed with coral. There were several melon sized colonies of sps in there that he had grown out from frags. I ended up getting a few sps frags, some blue tubb zoas, and a 3 head purple hammer and just took $100 off the price of the light.

Nothing like reefers helping each other out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kozmic]

Boat drinks my friend....boat drinks :beer:

How bout it?

Sounds like good times... boats, beer, & boo... 'er I mean "fishing". :lmao:

:beer:

 

[Protoavis]

That's right. No business person risks so much just to cover expenses. They are in search of a profit. That is not a sin or unethical.

Depends on beliefs, greed is generally considered a sin in all beliefs.

 

[Ohioreef1700]

I made the mistake when I first entered the hobby I got my tank all settled in and I ventured about 50 miles outside of where I live to an upscale lfs. I was in the hunt for red hornet zoas. I approached the worker and asked how much is that frag it had maybe 4 polyps on it and it looked freshly glued. He proceeded to tell me that they were super rare and that they were going to run me 50 dollars a head !!!! Well me being a new hobby member just decided I was going to pay the price and go about my day. 200 dollars for a frag of red hornets I can get a whole colony at any swap I go to now for around$ 50 for a decent colony. Needless to say they spotted a newbie in the hobby years back and hit me with the hard prices. But hey every business is there to make money I just don't agree with the way that they went about it.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Protoavis]

It might be interesting to calculate the cost of that GSP frag that Kendrid sold for $10.


Pure guestimates....
cost of initial GSP frag introduced into Kendrid's tank = $5
6 months to grow that tiny frag into a 5"x5" square...(estimate)
6 months x $100/mo for electricity= $600
6 months x $20/mo for water changes= $120
6 months worth of test kit chemicals= $50
6 months labor for testing, water changes, and equipment maintenance = I dunno, let's say 40 hrs @ $15/hr = $600
6 months capitalized cost of equipment (aquarium, filters, lighting, etc). Typical aquarium = $2000, lets capitalize it over 5 years ($2000/60 mo * 6 mo = $200

so... assuming that Kendrid sold no other frags from his tank (which would lower his COGS by spreading the cost over more units sold) that single 5"x5" GSP frag might have cost Kendrid...........

$1575 !!!!!

Change these guestimates all you like but the fact remains, there is NO WAY to produce a 5" x 5" GSP frag for $10.

That only applies in Kendrids sole point of the tank is to grow that 5"x5" and nothing else exists in the tank at all and the tank is purely there in an attempt to make money rather than for Kendrids enjoyment.

How many people do you know that only have a tank to grow a 5"x5" gsp mat?

 

[SeattleReefer]

That only applies in Kendrids sole point of the tank is to grow that 5"x5" and nothing else exists in the tank at all and the tank is purely there in an attempt to make money rather than for Kendrids enjoyment.

How many people do you know that only have a tank to grow a 5"x5" gsp mat?

Nobody has a tank dedicated to growing GSP because it's not profitable, which is the whole point of my post.


feel free to provide your own numbers but the point still stands, after accounting for capital costs and labor that $10 frag costs the seller much, much more than $10.

Kinda deflates the whole greedy seller theory.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Hmm. I'll have to assume you're not all that familiar with GSP. It grows like weeds, and there's no problem whatsoever making quite a lot of you can actually sell a large number of 4-polyp frags of GSP for $10 each.

Not the greatest example, in other words.

Approximately speaking, it costs about $50 per month for 8 square feet of high-light frag tank space, including electricity, salt for water changes, purified water, and calcium, alkalinity and magnesium supplements. Considerably less if one's grow-out space is a good deal larger than 60 gallon frag tanks. That's not, of course, the total cost of doing business, which is why aquacultured acros tend to be in the $20 - $40 range for 2" frags.

But the cost of aquaculturing or importing coral, adding a profit margin and the subsequent cost to the average reefer wasn't really what this thread was about, IMO.