The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[MUCHO REEF]

Indeed. There is, after all, a market for Hermes leather goods, Sturgeon caviar, and many other things that are very, very expensive for what they are.

However, I'd argue that when you're talking Hermes leather desk sets, Sturgeon Caviar, or a Patek Phillipe watch, you know what you're getting and what you're paying for. And you can make an informed decision on whether shelling out the $$$ for one of these items is worth it to you.

But buying corals online is typically based solely on appearance and/or a highly questionable, really goofy name like "whammin' watermelon". And many, many so-called "reputable" independent coral dealers are significantly altering the appearance of their goods by lighting and photo manipulation (it doesn't just happen on e-bay). That pretty much invalidates the "value for money" decision that most of us make when we decide to purchase goods.

This issue, at least in my opinion, is what this thread is about.

I hear you loud and clear and I concur. Before my lengthy reply, I ask you, what's the remedy to the deception and greed you speak of that affects so many new reefers as we have witnessed for many years now?

 

[ecotanker]

This thread certainly help understand the history and the two opposing side. I think I will support my local reef store which sells decent colony for a fair prices. Thanks to everyone that contributed.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Wow, this thread was on page 5 and getting over 100 views per day still.

Just curious ecotanker, what did you learn or gain from this thread that aids your decision?

Mooch

 

[ecotanker]

I learned what reefing used to be as a hobby and could be again, the sharing of corals instead of a source of income for other hobbyists. Not that there is a problem with making a living off selling coral at a reasonable price.

Just curious ecotanker, what did you learn or gain from this thread that aids your decision?

Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I learned what reefing used to be as a hobby and could be again, the sharing of corals instead of a source of income for other hobbyists. Not that there is a problem with making a living off selling coral at a reasonable price.

Thanks for the reply.

Please click on this link below then scroll down to post # 17 and read my reply and tell me, is this a reasonable price? Please note the date, price, size and number of polyps on these true frags that were allowed to mature before being sold.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062730

Let's go back even further and click on the link below. Again note the date, price, size and number of polyps being sold without even providing a single picture and without a single silly name. Would you consider these "reasonable prices"?

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268

What if I told you, which I'm sure you're already aware of by now, that today, any and all of these polyps are being hacked, glued, photoshopped, given silly names, fake lineage, added lies of rarity, someone's name also being attached and being sold for $5 to $ 1,500 a polyp? All of which has occurred as a result of gouging, lying and greed that became acceptable and mainstream !!!!! There are even those applauding, supporting and encouraging these sky high prices. Ask yourself why ? Mind you, this all began overnight in 2005 and it has morphed into a complete mess year by year until today.

REEFING has been replaced with RETAILING. Aka, Supply and The Man, .........aka Greed !!!!!!!!!!!



MUCHO REEF

 

[j_mazzy]

What ever happened to props and oddyssey? I need zoas.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

What ever happened to props and oddyssey? I need zoas.

Not being smart at all here, but take a wild guess at what happened?

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Thanks for the reply.

Please click on this link below then scroll down to post # 17 and read my reply and tell me, is this a reasonable price? Please note the date, price, size and number of polyps on these true frags that were allowed to mature before being sold.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062730

Let's go back even further and click on the link below. Again note the date, price, size and number of polyps being sold without even providing a single picture and without a single silly name. Would you consider these "reasonable prices"?

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268

What if I told you, which I'm sure you're already aware of by now, that today, any and all of these polyps are being hacked, glued, photoshopped, given silly names, fake lineage, added lies of rarity, someone's name also being attached and being sold for $5 to $ 1,500 a polyp? All of which has occurred as a result of gouging, lying and greed that became acceptable and mainstream !!!!! There are even those applauding, supporting and encouraging these sky high prices. Ask yourself why ? Mind you, this all began overnight in 2005 and it has morphed into a complete mess year by year until today.

REEFING has been replaced with RETAILING. Aka, Supply and The Man, .........aka Greed !!!!!!!!!!!



MUCHO REEF

........and if you wish to be further enlightened, please read post #18 thru #21 in the first link above. Those whom are new to the hobby simply aren't aware of these rip off prices. They are the prime marks being sought out and takened advantage of and they have no absolute clue of the greed that has over takened this hobby.

This topic is now being discussed everywhere with numerous attempts being made to surpress it. This thread, starting from page 1, has everything listed with proof which will enlighten others as well.

Mooch

 

[alton]

Mucho I agree with some of what you are saying but the greed sometimes is coming from the individuals who think they are buying an expensive frag hoping to get rich re-fraging it in a few months. I still remember some buying Beanie Baby's thinking they where going to become collector dolls or something? There are just too many that want a get rich scheme

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Mucho I agree with some of what you are saying but the greed sometimes is coming from the individuals who think they are buying an expensive frag hoping to get rich re-fraging it in a few months. I still remember some buying Beanie Baby's thinking they where going to become collector dolls or something? There are just too many that want a get rich scheme

I agree with you 2,000 % my friend.

Most of the culture in this hobby has been changed as a result of this. I wholeheartedly blame the everyday reefer whom has jumped on the proverbial bandwagon to make money via deception and greed. Many of those reefers you speak of have been deceived into believing this has been the norm and they readily accept that norm. On the contrary, nothing could be further from the truth as depicted throughout this thread.

 

[z3speed4me]

I've got to say my one LFS still has very very acceptable prices regardless of color; green, purple, gold hammers and frogspawn for 20-25 per head. Almost all of their frags are the same. Full sized colonies at times for the same price some of these online places are charging for a single or double head piece.

Online has gotten out of hand with all of the ULTRA, EXTREME, MEGA, OUT OF THIS WORLD, naming conventions of their sites as well claiming they have something nobody else does. Meanwhile they spent more time in photoshop than then did taking care of the coral.

Personally I can't wait to frag some of my pieces in the future and give them to enthusiasts who are joining the hobby to get them started or trade with locals.

 

[Therinx]

........and if you wish to be further enlightened, please read post #18 thru #21 in the first link above. Those whom are new to the hobby simply aren't aware of these rip off prices. They are the prime marks being sought out and takened advantage of and they have no absolute clue of the greed that has over takened this hobby.

This topic is now being discussed everywhere with numerous attempts being made to surpress it. This thread, starting from page 1, has everything listed with proof which will enlighten others as well.

Mooch

:thumbsup:

I'm totally new to the reef portion of the hobby, and this thread was INVALUABLE to me.

I haven't even bought my tank yet - still doing research, reading these boards, saving money, and deciding what i want in my tank that will make a good ecosystem (i've been doing this for 6 months now), and have already learned to avoid more than a few things in the hobby thanks to this board, and this thread specifically.

Zoas intrigued me (and still do) so i could have wound up spending far more than necessary if i had decided to put them in my new tank. At least now i know that i could have them without paying exorbitantly for them.

So, thanks to all who posted here about the subject.

 

[sde1500]

Yea, couldn't imagine someone taking a look at a piece, deciding they like the price and look of it, and paying it for the sole purpose of keeping it in their tank. Whole hobby is obviously about greed now...

 

[sde1500]

:thumbsup:

I'm totally new to the reef portion of the hobby, and this thread was INVALUABLE to me.

I haven't even bought my tank yet - still doing research, reading these boards, saving money, and deciding what i want in my tank that will make a good ecosystem (i've been doing this for 6 months now), and have already learned to avoid more than a few things in the hobby thanks to this board, and this thread specifically.

Zoas intrigued me (and still do) so i could have wound up spending far more than necessary if i had decided to put them in my new tank. At least now i know that i could have them without paying exorbitantly for them.

So, thanks to all who posted here about the subject.

Welcome! You can absolutely get into Zoanthids for a reasonable price. Of course, I don't know what you would consider reasonable, I have no problems with buying a polyp for $5, clearly some others think that is too much. My first suggestion would be go check some out in person. If most of what you've been doing is looking at pictures and macro shots, you may be surprised at the size of the polyps lol. I know I was, they are not much bigger than the eraser on the end of a pencil. If you aren't picky about it, check out some frag packs, good varieties for good prices. Also give this post a look, see if any swaps are local to you http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24519554&postcount=141.

For frag pack ideas, disclaimer here is I've bookmarked but not used these. I'm considering it for the future absolutely, just not spending on the tank for a bit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152071890126
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162068006577
http://www.ebay.com/usr/coral_gardens_aquaculture this seller typically has a zoa pack
http://www.yourreef.com/frag-packs

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I've got to say my one LFS still has very very acceptable prices regardless of color; green, purple, gold hammers and frogspawn for 20-25 per head. Almost all of their frags are the same. Full sized colonies at times for the same price some of these online places are charging for a single or double head piece.

That's awesome, good for you.

Online has gotten out of hand with all of the ULTRA, EXTREME, MEGA, OUT OF THIS WORLD, naming conventions of their sites as well claiming they have something nobody else does. Meanwhile they spent more time in photoshop than then did taking care of the coral.

Online has been out of hand for years now. As I've said a dozen times already, when you see these "bait words", ULTRA, LIMITED EDITION, JUST DISCOVERED, GRADE A, ELITE, LINEAGE, ONE OF A KIND, SHOCKING or anything comparable to these words you should turn and run. You are about to be taken. You will see rhis online and at frags swaps so please don't fall for rhe okie doke. The same goes for anything on a fresh white plug or anything with glowing photoshopped coloration.

Personally I can't wait to frag some of my pieces in the future and give them to enthusiasts who are joining the hobby to get them started or trade with locals.

That's great, but be careful. There was a time you could freely give away corals to help new reefers, heck I've done so dozens of times. The issue is this, when some of them discover this new street value due to the greed we're seeing, they will sell your freebies for mega profits without even taking them out of the bag you gave them. It happened to me many years ago and I was completely shocked by such behavior. Just make sure you know the intentions of the recipient.

Mooch

 

[ecotanker]

Thanks my friend. I agree with you about the pricing. Of course one person reasonable price may not be another. I would be willing to pay at most $5 pp for the more colorful zoas, but there must be at least five polyps to give it a chance to grow.

Thanks for the reply.

Please click on this link below then scroll down to post # 17 and read my reply and tell me, is this a reasonable price? Please note the date, price, size and number of polyps on these true frags that were allowed to mature before being sold.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062730

Let's go back even further and click on the link below. Again note the date, price, size and number of polyps being sold without even providing a single picture and without a single silly name. Would you consider these "reasonable prices"?

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268

What if I told you, which I'm sure you're already aware of by now, that today, any and all of these polyps are being hacked, glued, photoshopped, given silly names, fake lineage, added lies of rarity, someone's name also being attached and being sold for $5 to $ 1,500 a polyp? All of which has occurred as a result of gouging, lying and greed that became acceptable and mainstream !!!!! There are even those applauding, supporting and encouraging these sky high prices. Ask yourself why ? Mind you, this all began overnight in 2005 and it has morphed into a complete mess year by year until today.

REEFING has been replaced with RETAILING. Aka, Supply and The Man, .........aka Greed !!!!!!!!!!!



MUCHO REEF

 

[Therinx]

Welcome! You can absolutely get into Zoanthids for a reasonable price. Of course, I don't know what you would consider reasonable, I have no problems with buying a polyp for $5, clearly some others think that is too much. My first suggestion would be go check some out in person. If most of what you've been doing is looking at pictures and macro shots, you may be surprised at the size of the polyps lol. I know I was, they are not much bigger than the eraser on the end of a pencil. If you aren't picky about it, check out some frag packs, good varieties for good prices. Also give this post a look, see if any swaps are local to you http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24519554&postcount=141.

For frag pack ideas, disclaimer here is I've bookmarked but not used these. I'm considering it for the future absolutely, just not spending on the tank for a bit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152071890126
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162068006577
http://www.ebay.com/usr/coral_gardens_aquaculture this seller typically has a zoa pack
http://www.yourreef.com/frag-packs

Thanks!

Before coming here, i figured they'd go for $20-$75 per "colony" (3-6 polyps?), which i was willing to spend, preferably the lower end. I'm still a ways off (still have to get all the equipment and cycle the tank, etc. and then stabilize a bit) but every bit of info helps.

 

[sde1500]

Thanks!

Before coming here, i figured they'd go for $20-$75 per "colony" (3-6 polyps?), which i was willing to spend, preferably the lower end. I'm still a ways off (still have to get all the equipment and cycle the tank, etc. and then stabilize a bit) but every bit of info helps.

Hey, spend whatever you feel comfortable spending. Do your research, there are tons of sites out there to shop around on, which helps to gauge how prices vary. If you can find them locally through clubs or swaps, you'll probably get a better price. But I also wouldn't use what prices were a decade ago as a baseline for what you'd consider spending today..

 

[MUCHO REEF]

:thumbsup:

I'm totally new to the reef portion of the hobby, and this thread was INVALUABLE to me.

I haven't even bought my tank yet - still doing research, reading these boards, saving money, and deciding what i want in my tank that will make a good ecosystem (i've been doing this for 6 months now), and have already learned to avoid more than a few things in the hobby thanks to this board, and this thread specifically.

Zoas intrigued me (and still do) so i could have wound up spending far more than necessary if i had decided to put them in my new tank. At least now i know that i could have them without paying exorbitantly for them.

So, thanks to all who posted here about the subject.

That's great to hear. What 3 things did you discover and find most invaluable?

Much respect to you for taking the time to do your homework before taking the plunge. I only wish more people would do this as knowledge is the key to being a success in reefing.

I've met and spoken with many new reefers who were fleeced for hundreds and some in the thousands. I have mentored 10 newbies for over a year now and I've informed them to never pay more than $20 to $25 for a minimum of 15 polyps, or else just walk away. To never buy these 1, 2 and 3 polyp frags and to only buy from reputable and ethical sellers. Keep in mind that there are some unscrupulous sellers on ebay and at these swaps. Please align yourself with local reef clubs and other reefers who agree with your positions as it relates to this thread.

Please share this thread with others newbs as well. Good luck my friend.

Mooch

 

[BrokenSpoke]

Ran across another thread in this forum where someone was asking about Jason Fox Funky Town Favias and what they looked like grown out. Yet another coral with a fancy name so I took a look at the guys website. He's asking $69 for a 1/2" square frag!

Of course the photograph is taken under ideal lighting, and who knows if it's been photoshoped, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around a 1/2" frag for $69 and another $50 for shipping. :headwally:

http://www.jasonfoxsignaturecorals.com/product_p/lps-znio9.htm