The Zoa Naming Game

[jessiesgrrl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8291753#post8291753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Speckled Grouper
Like one of the LFS in my area, which used to have fair prices on zoas. The last time I went there, they had chopped up the rocks, made tiny frags out of them and had a ringbinder with all the fancy names in it and where asking astronomical prices.....sad.....

Imo, you should NEVER pay named zoanthid prices for wildcaught zoas. Ask if they are wildcaught before buying. If they are, buy them only if you are willing to accept the risk that they may not adjust to captive life and melt away in your tank; and only if you are cool with the depletion of natural resources that is currently being exploited round the world. Plus, the color you see is going to be different in your tank over the long haul anyway because of the light difference between your lights and the sun, and shipping stress as well. So you may like what you see then, but they likely won't stay that way anyway.

Propagated zoanthids command a higher price because they have not only adjusted to tank life, but also have exhibited growth...


Laurie

 

[jessiesgrrl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8294230#post8294230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greystreet41
don't fault me that I didn't check back continuously or subscribe to the thread for someone to finallly give me their opionions on names (which is all I was after..opinions)

(now I'm seeing the rest of your post that you should give me the benefit of the doubt--sorry, not seeking your approval).


Only a diligent/informed importer, wholesaler, vendor would be able to keep up with all of the immediate desires.

I would be happy to give you the benefit of the doubt... if you are willing to extend the same to others like Mr. Ugly, who was not taking personal potshots either.

I would note though, that you were looking for opinions... and you got Mr. Ugly's. It's cool to agree to disagree- I would advocate that as a possible response for the next time.

As for self importance as referenced in your post- I hope I never get so self important (self impotent?) in my own mind as to ask for an opinion and then tell someone who gave me theirs that I wasn't looking for validation from them.

Cheers!


Laurie

 

[greystreet41]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8294616#post8294616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jessiesgrrl
I would be happy to give you the benefit of the doubt... if you are willing to extend the same to others like Mr. Ugly, who was not taking personal potshots either.

I would note though, that you were looking for opinions... and you got Mr. Ugly's. It's cool to agree to disagree- I would advocate that as a possible response for the next time.

As for self importance as referenced in your post- I hope I never get so self important (self impotent?) in my own mind as to ask for an opinion and then tell someone who gave me theirs that I wasn't looking for validation from them.

Cheers!


Laurie

Laurie, the tone was reciprocal. In the original ID thread I've already thanked EVERYONE who replied for their thoughts (thanks for your concern). This is the thread that took a life of its own. He just chose to single me out without having the facts. That's dangerous.
cheers as well.

 

[jessiesgrrl]

You're welcome!

As you singled him out, reciprocally, for his thoughts...

Agree to disagree?

Laurie

 

[greystreet41]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8294679#post8294679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jessiesgrrl
You're welcome!

As you singled him out, reciprocally, for his thoughts...

Agree to disagree?

Laurie

great logic...certainly agree that we disagree....moving on...

 

[Angela Short]

Uhhh, Whew... Now that this is all out We all have to realize the written word is so hard to read into sometimes...
True there are many chop shop mentalities out there but in this particular case Greystreet just got called out because the quick name then sell/trade offer but he really is not a chop em up guy. But I agree to agree to disagree is a good thing sometimes and leave it at that.

 

[Angela Short]

And back on topic for the naming game...
I understand namming a zoanthid gives one certain rights to call it "there" zoa and I totally agree a tank raised coral is far superior for the natural reefs sake and to be sure it thrives in tank life but, The ocen is a huge place and I just can not belive just because someone got a certain color morph that thats the only "one and only" true XYZ zoa out there. Does that make sence? I am all kinda new in zoanthids but I see repetedly threads about "Is this real or authintic?" I just can not belive there is so much hype over such tiny little polyps! And you could take 1 huge colony of say RPP and spread it up over 5 tanks and 100% guarenteed to get 5 different shades from red to orange to brown. Just my obsevations. Oh and I am not singleing out anyone because I seriously haven't been in this forum to even know who named what!

 

[jessiesgrrl]

I think most of us use the zoaid site for trading reference really. If I am going to trade zoas to another reefer, I just want for both of us to be clear on what I hope to find when his box gets to my house- and so that he knows exactly what I am sending him... Helps cut down confusion.

Now, it gets ugly where people want the EXACT same zoa/paly that they see on Zoaid, and that is where I think we all get into trouble. That is the only reason I can see for wanting to trace the lineage back to a certain coral, really- to ensure that you are really getting what you saw in a pic and not a variation. Marketing will take advantage of this mindset.

Personally, I don't pay for a coral specifically for lineage. It's fine for people who want to, and who like that, but I have lots of other places to spend that kind of money. Plus, when you can trade for it, it kind of doesn't make sense to pay $600 a polyp becauseit is So and So's Clown People Eater... no matter what the waiting list is... especially if you realize that it is likely going to morph anyhow in your tank given different tank paramaters/light and shadow/chem warfare, etc.


Laurie

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Sorry folks, I wasn't the one to first bring up AoG on any of these threads. I've been avoiding this forum lately, but when I did see the posts, I figured I might as well add some info that might be helpful for ID purposes. Someone brought up Armageddon, so I even posted a pic of the ones I got from Whodah.

I'll just go back to lurk mode now.

Best wishes to all

 

[berns]

well now that everyone's got that off their chest can we get back to my original post...

should zoaid.com change the way they are naming some individual morphs by now placing them into some sort of family/variety and adding all similar morphs into the frame as they are put forward?

should kill a few birds with this one stone.......

 

[johnanddawn]

berns i totally agree - if you look on zoaid there are many repeats of naming (now i'm not saying these are all the exact same zoas mind you - just similar enough to be possible related?????) - the AOG, armegedon, twilight pink, envy red, goochsters, lord of the rings, piberoptics super nova, pink panther, pucker pink, sparkling bubble gum, sweet pink, tickel me pink, watermelon, etc. etc. come on.......... and you could easily combine many other groups as well (for example look at all the names for pink palys geeezzzz!!!)

i tried to start a conversation on just this subject not long ago and got little response - tank water parameters, flow, and lighting favor the proliferation of certain zoaxanthelea is a pretty widely accepted fact, and many of these names (colormorphs) are simple color acclimation to tank conditions - but i understand that the genetic predisposition has a lot to do with it also - here in lies the true conversation IMO (nature/nurture)

i agree that variety naming makes far more sense in our hobby but since i don't buy on ebay and only sell/trade extras for fun - not profit, i guess it really doesn't matter to me - call them what you want!

sorry if i offended anyone - i don't mean to start anything and will aways agree to agree or disagree

 

[geoxman]

Why don't you ask the owner of the site what he would like to do? It is his site, time and money! I see a few cross referenced/named zoos, but the site is still very helpful in trying to figure out what morph you have, if you are new to zoos.
I have about 20 morphs that are not even on named/identified on the site, and I do not intend on naming them, but I enjoy looking at the different zoos and color variations between each morph and trying to figure out what I might or might not have. Happy zooing!

 

[greystreet41]

nm

 

[Reef Junkie]

Listen guys. Zoaid is run by one guy, but he has help from other reefers.
We've been talking about changing some of the groupings of zoas for a while now.

Have patince, it'll get straightend out, but in the meantime, zoaid isn't just about naming zoas. There are some great articles on there too.

 

[RevHtree]

I agree with Reef Junkie (Bill). Zoaid is not about naming zoas only, but also a place to inform us zoa collectors about many different issues. Fragging, Predators, ect.....

 

[surfnvb7]

i agree with bill, you zoa newbies need to take the stuff on zoaID with a grain of salt, it was originally meant just for fun, not the basis behind everyone's marketing scheme.

 

[berns]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8315153#post8315153 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
i agree with bill, you zoa newbies need to take the stuff on zoaID with a grain of salt, it was originally meant just for fun, not the basis behind everyone's marketing scheme.

who gives a monkey about marketing scheme

i guess the plot of my original post has somewat been lost with some replies, but glad to hear that changes may be due

 

[johnanddawn]

who gives a monkey about marketing scheme

i guess the plot of my original post has somewat been lost with some replies, but glad to hear that changes may be due

sure was........ but nice try anyway berns

 

[BBoley24]

So what do you all expect to see and hear? Before you pass judgement on my post I ask that you look at what I am trying to get accross as unbias as possible.

I understand calling a zoanthid "RadioActive Dragon Eyes" is absolutly ridiculous. And it all started out as all fun and games. I understand how one may look similar... but not... from the next. This is easily and already been explained... people just need something to conform towards so they can try and relate their polyps to the next guys... but honestly.. did you not see this price game coming? One day it will level off... but honestly this hobby is relativly new and expanding at an alarming rate. If there were another type of coral with such variation the same thing would happen to it as well. I am just as ticked off as everyone else around here about the name game driving up prices and ultimatly people getting ripped off... but this is economics at its best. People will buy what they like ... wether they get ripped off or not. I see these Orange Envys out there for 500 bucks a polyp. Thats absolutly un called for. But as much as I think it is beautiful... I think the "Radio Active Dragon Eyes" are even more beautiful at 50 cents a polyp. This is a simple objective view that should not be taken as a blame game but as true economics. I don't see Orange Envys in any LFS in my city of Houston... but everyone and their mothers have the RDEs... which in turn makes the Orange Envys more expensive because of their rarity and slow growth. Its a shame that they are so expensive because they are not traded as often but take it as it is... a rare precious coral zoanthid that should be prized no matter what it looks like.

On the other hand, the expansion of the aquarium hobby and the endangerment of coral reefs should be preserved throughout the world through people like you and I. I feel as if it weren't for us... Such corals would not even be here. And seeing how most of us would not shell out 500 bucks per polyp unfortunatly this coral will either slowly disipate due to lack of circulation or more greedy bastards will buy these polyps or get lucky and obtain them through ignorance and exploit as many people as possible and the Orange Envys will eventually become as common as RDEs. Then the next
"unobtainable" polyp will come around and drive up prices. Its a market now... no longer a free trade sort of deal that we would all love to see.

The other day I was fortunate enough to come across a lady in my area that was willing to trade her PPEs for some of my BAM BAM oranges. Yes I am using the idiotic terms simply because I know all of you can go out and associate your Bright Orange terminology with my bam bam terms... anyhow.. she was well informed of the rarity and pricing of these polyps but she did not care. she was a true enthusiast. At first I thought I was making a great trade because I was getting a well sought after frag... then I thought wow mine are worth far less than hers... score one for me... then I threw it through my head logically and realized that I know when people come over and see my bam bams they are in awe... and dont even mention the PPEs. But it was a self gradifying trade as I now know that I have a well sought after polyp in my tank. Call me a facist or a simple minded individual but when I see those polyps I feel proud to have them in my tank.

In the end... I beleive we all will go through this price increase wether we like it or not... you know as well as I that there is nothing that we can do but keep trading our polyps with disregards to pricing and rarity. But honestly, what would be the fun in that. Why can't we all just collect what we like and what we feel will make us look at our collection and say... wow... I have that.

 

[berns]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8324835#post8324835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnanddawn
sure was........ but nice try anyway berns

lol nice try at wat????

i live in UK and we dont have lots bright zoa's so all the bickering and price hiking doesnt quite apply over here cause we simply dont have them

but im really liking the zoa's and read rc and others similar stateside forums on them and from a personal view i do feel its a shame how things have developed your side even tho i realise the names werent meant tobe anything but a bit of fun