Thinking about hitting the reset button.

[VanJuKy]

Hi all,

I have been a lurker around here for many, many years. Never really contributed to the conversations, instead just took pleasure in reading as needed. I have been keeping marine fish/corals since about 1993 and never really had any issues with disease except for my first 33 gallon tank way back then. At that time, over enthusiasm led me to put 6 fish in that new tank within two weeks. Results were as expected and I started over.
I had a large 135 gallon tank for a long time which eventually became a soft coral reef. I never practiced quarantine procedures back then but, did rely on fresh water dips when adding new fish. Ozone and UV were used on my system all the time. Five years ago I sold that setup.
Last year I started gutting the bottom of my house in preparation of a new 300 gallon SPS and LPS reef. Fast forward to the last 8 weeks and where I am now. System has water in it but no corals yet. I have a total of 5 fish QT tanks and 1 coral quarantine tank. My tank was cycled (actually ran for 3 months before fish). I have used a combination of Prazipro and Cupramine on everyone. My first loss in quarantine came 4 weeks in. A Hippo Tang got spooked when I walked into the fish room. Swam right into the end of the tank and knocked himself out. He slowly came back over a few hours but for two days swam around with a weird head bob before perishing. I accidentally killed off a few others including a PBT by using Microacter7 with Cupramine.

I have a large Purple Tang that even though it got a bad case of ich while using meds, I have brought him back to health. He was breathing hard and got covered in white spots fairly quickly.

I did a formalin/freshwater bath followed by 4 treatments of ICH-X. While I did that, I put the tank into hypo salinity over the course of two days. After 3-4 weeks he looked really good. I raised the salinity back up and sure enough I have seen a few spots. I have him medicated with Cupramine at full salinity right now. He will start tank transfer this week. After that I will watch him. I have Formalin and CP on order from EBay. I also have various other fish in QT right now. All of them starting TT this week.

Now my dilemma. I had put a pair of quarantined Blue Throat Triggers, 1 Foxface, 4 damsels and one Bangai Cardinal in my main tank. They were all treated for 3-4 weeks with no signs. I lost all but the Foxface and one damsel within 3 days while in the display tank. All covered in Ich. The only thing I can think of is I had one bad tank and had done cross contamination by buckets, test equipment, feeding etc. Or from what I have seen here reading, it is possible that maybe I did not hit four weeks with all. It must have been within days.

Everyone except the Foxface and damsel are in QT. They are all being treated all will go through TT and then an observation period.
I have lowered the new display down to 1.009 salinity and bumped the temp to 84. I am torn about what to do next. It is a new tank with no inverts and Marco base rock only. Do I let the tank run hypo for 4 weeks at this temp and then bring it back? Are there risks of not getting ich out by doing that?
Do I hit the reset button? Drop a 1/4 cup of bleach in and let it circulate? Flush it with freshwater a few times then refill with RO/DI? I can check ammonia levels to make sure there is nothing there before I refill with RO/DI.
At least I know there will be no ich in the sand.

At that point I will just recycle the tank and me extra vigilant with more med options. I have some expensive livestock waiting and I don't really want to lose any of it.
I have in QT right now
Large Purple Tang
Achilles Tang
Large Cross Hatch Trigger
Naso Tang
Blue Tang
5 Cardinals
2 Clown Fish
Shrimps
Snails
SPS
LPS
In the DT
Foxface
Damsel

Amazing how I got away with all the bad habits for years. Now I am getting kicked in the *** for trying to everything right.

Thoughts on the DT? I should he able to have it sterilized, filled and cycling within three days (2 days of RO filling). I can put some new live sand in, some Microbacter7 and ammonia source and be up and going in 3 weeks.

I have CP and Formalin on order for Velvet and Brook. If after TT I am still having issues, I am concerned that I am fighting what I think is Ich but maybe a case of Brook or Velvet that is being suppressed by the copper.
Cheers,
J.

 

[icliao]

The general recommendation is to remove all fish and leave the tank fallow for at least 2 months but like you many have done exactly the same only find ich again as soon as a new fish is put into the DT.

I think apart from bleaching the tank and running the tank fallow again for 2 months your options are to run hyposalinity which you already am doing. However, if it is velvet you may have to treat the DT tank with CP in order to get rid of it.

Usually ich does not kill as fast as what you just experienced so it is possible that you are dealing with something else likely marine velvet.

I am going through exactly the same thing you are going through with a newly set up 1000GL tank and I am treating CP with it. I lost 3 more fish after the administrating the CP but judging on the gasping of the fish I think it is velvet that killed them. I am into one week of the treatment and the remaining 18 fish seem all eating and show no more symptoms of the disease. I am giving CP a shot to clear up the tank of velvet and ich.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

I agree. It's probably velvet and velvet (depending on the species) can survive various amounts of hyposalinity. Velvet and ich both can reside in the fish for months until favorable conditions send them into the next stage of development. And some fish can develop an immune response and while they never show symptoms, become carriers. It also seems that velvet especially can be aerosol transferred up to (at least) 10 feet from an infected tank and will travel on anything wet even farther. The more I read up on the diseases the more I am flabbergasted that anything survives any length of time.

 

[s7even]

I am in the same situation as you are. I believe my fish have ich, but I havent had any losses yet. I cant decide whether to nuke the tank or the fallow method. It would be faster to nuke it, but how would one get rid of ich on corals?

Good luck, please update us.

 

[VanJuKy]

I am in the same situation as you are. I believe my fish have ich, but I havent had any losses yet. I cant decide whether to nuke the tank or the fallow method. It would be faster to nuke it, but how would one get rid of ich on corals?

Good luck, please update us.

My corals are still in quarantine. All my fish except for two are in QT as well. I really have just a newly cycled tank with Marcos rock and CaribSea live sand in it. Seems a lot easier to nuke it and start over. At least I don't have to worry about something showing up at a later date. I have been reading a lot of the stickys by Snorvich and Sk8r, and I really don't like the idea of going fallow for 8-12 weeks and then still possibly having it show up.
I started TTM today on one QT tank and will work through the others starting tomorrow. At this point I am eagerly waiting for my shipment of CP. I can keep everything at bay for a little while.
Today I did the TTM on my Purple Tang. During the swap I put him in a clear container and had a good look. There are definitely some white spots. Funny thing is, when I put him back in the tank with new water and no drugs, he seems like a healthier fish. I don't think he likes the Cupramine very much.
I do have a very hard time trying to read the test kits I have for Copper (Salifert and Seachem). That said I only dose the amount of water in the tank. If I swap out 10 gallons, I will put back in only enough for 10 gallons.

 

[Dmorty217]

If nothing is in the DT run it just freshwater for a few days and whatever disease you were dealing with will be gone

 

[scooter31707]

The general recommendation is to remove all fish and leave the tank fallow for at least 2 months but like you many have done exactly the same only find ich again as soon as a new fish is put into the DT.

I think apart from bleaching the tank and running the tank fallow again for 2 months your options are to run hyposalinity which you already am doing. However, if it is velvet you may have to treat the DT tank with CP in order to get rid of it.

Usually ich does not kill as fast as what you just experienced so it is possible that you are dealing with something else likely marine velvet.

I am going through exactly the same thing you are going through with a newly set up 1000GL tank and I am treating CP with it. I lost 3 more fish after the administrating the CP but judging on the gasping of the fish I think it is velvet that killed them. I am into one week of the treatment and the remaining 18 fish seem all eating and show no more symptoms of the disease. I am giving CP a shot to clear up the tank of velvet and ich.

Fallow should be at least 72-74 days, not 2 months.

 

[VanJuKy]

All fish are now in QT (5 tanks). Corals, shrimp, snails are all in a QT tank as well. I put a cup of bleach in and ran the system for a few hours. At 360 gallons system volume that is just slightly more then recommendations for making water pure for human consumption. I will drain it tonight and then refill with non ro/di water and drain again. Over the next 4 days I will refill with ro/di water, test and start over.
I was kind of unhappy with my reefscape so I purchased some more Reef Rock and will look at it as an opportunity to redo the aquascape as well as install a fan and humidistat over the tank. Fish all look good and will have every one through TTM in the next 12-15 days.
While tanks is cycling again I will observe and treat if needed (hopefully not).
Thanks.
J.

 

[Dmorty217]

Fallow should be at least 72-74 days, not 2 months.

If you're treating Ich anything less than 90 days is a waste of time. There are plenty of reports out there of Ich reinfecting fish after being reintroduced to the fallow tank after 72 days.