Thoughts for a reefer on the edge

[nstiesi]

Hello RC,

I don't post in the global forum much, but am fairly active in regional. I have been reefing since 2008. I went from 20L, to 29g, t0 75g in that time, mixed reef, moved the tank from place to place a few times. the 75g has been settled as it sits since October 2010. Ive always been pretty successful, never had too much trouble keeping the simple stuff. Lately things have taken a turn for the worse. I'd like to characterize my system, its strengths, and its faults below. If anyone has some insights into my troubles, it would be greatly appreciated, as more and more I feel a rage quit coming on.

The system:
75g peninsula.
beananimal overflow.
30g sump.
Octopus dwn-110 recirc skimmer.
10ish gallon fuge with LR and chaeto fed from return.
Lights: 2x 175w halide, currently ushio 14k lamps. Also, 2x 54w T5HO supplements, currently ATI Blue+. Lamps need replacement, about 10 months old.
Flow: 2x Koralia, one 1400, one 1050, no wavemaker. Return, mag 7.
Carbon run passively in filter sock in sump. replaced periodically.
Water made personally from 0 TDS RO/DI unit, with seachem reef salt.

Parameters:
pH: usually on the low side of normal 7.8 to 8. Measured using both cheap Hanna PH with new electrode, and API test solution
Alk: 7-11. Dosed when low with BRS recipe 1 two part solution. seemed to need about 1 dKH every day or two to maintain 11. Dosed manually, so usually less frequently than that.
Ca: 400-440. Dosed when below 400 with BRS recipe 1 two part, also manually. Needs it maybe once a week, stays pretty stable.
Nitrate: Always tests zero
Phosphate: dont have test kit.
I dose 40mL of 5% acetic acid vinegar solution for carbon source daily
Water changes performed once every 2 weeks....sometimes once per month if im really busy. Always ~20%

Inhabitants:
Mixed reef, zoas, LPS (euphyllia mostly, few acans), light sps (monticap, monti digi, stylo, birdsnest), 3 RBTA (started with one, split twice)
Yellow tang recently died after 1 year + of seemingly perfect health, cause of death unknown.
1 Foxface rabbitfish
1 Saddle clown
1 Percula clown
1 Lubbocks Fairy wrasse
All fish eat well.
I feed mostly roggers frozen reef blend, along with marine pellets, dulse flake, dried cyclopeeze, and nori. (not all of that every day)
Feeding usually once a day, sometimes every other.

The bright spots:
RBTA: as mentioned, split twice already, havent moved in months. Great extension, closed mouth, look happy, host the saddle clown
Birdsnest: Huge, best grower, great polyps, good color
Leng sy cap: huge, decent growth speed, good color
The clowns are LONG time inhabitants, with the perc being around since this was a 29g. Saddle clown has tripled in size in 3 years.
Monti-digis: 2 out of 3 show good growth, decent color.

The problems:
Bubble algae - I just cleaned as much as I could this week. Removed a TON. About an inch or more thick on the bottom of a 5g bucket to give an idea of volume.
Xenia - Devil pest weed, biggest mistake i have made. Tufts show up all over the tank, and any/every little crevice. My efforts of manual removal (with hemostats), and target killing (tried vinegar, alk solution, lemon juice, etc), have done nothing.
GSP - also invasive, overgrowing some zoas and acan frags.
Hair algae - havent seen a lick of it in a year....then the yellow tang died. Now its coming back.
Zoas - All colonies are shrinking, melting, receding, and in some cases just flat detaching from their achorage.
LPS - seemingly healthy, just plain not growing. Acans, frogspawn, hammer, torch, duncan....all stagnant.
SPS - mostly ok, but I tried a staghorn a few months ago. Grew like a beast for a few months, color was outstanding, then it started bleaching, dying. Cut out the healthy stalk, remounted it. Its got good tissue now, but poor color, very little growth.

Final thoughts:
I USED to run GFO in a BRS reactor. It clogged the reactor overnight, sat stagnant. Figured it did more harm than good.
Im SURE my water quality must be poor for all the algae to grow, but test never show it, vinegar made 100% NO difference after 2 months. GFO never helped either. I dipped all zoas in Revive this week.....hasnt seemed to help.

I KNOW this was a novel, and thank anyone who read all the way through it. If anyone can shed any light on my issues, it would be WONDERFUL. I am currently debating:
A.) fluke tabbing the xenia and GSP, and dealing with whatever fallout comes B.) Cooking all LR in a dark container for a few months and starting over
C.) Getting all new rock and starting over
D.) Leaving the hobby all together.

Of course, fixing the problem without all these drastic measures would be best.

Nick

 

[IridescentLily]

Don't lose heart. I've been close to that myself in the past.
Can you take a picture of it?
Is it green bubble algae or slimy reddish bubble algae?

So your tank has been setup for 7 months, since Oct 2011, right.
Have you recently changed your lights?

How long have you had your foxface and yellow tang?

Unfortunately you picked two corals which tend to take over a tank; xenia, and gsp. Everyone goes through that with those two corals
I've gone through alot with zoas. There is something eating them...or....too much or too little lighting.
How long have the zoas been in there?

you say you checked your ro unit and it was clogged, and the water sat stagnant. How long was it sitting stagnant?

Do you feed your corals?

 

[jprime84]

I'd like to hear the bubble algae solution myself. I have the green type.

 

[Laith]

First thing that comes to mind:

- no testing for Phosphate
- not running GFO

Could be phosphate problem?

Laith

 

[nstiesi]

Don't lose heart. I've been close to that myself in the past.
Can you take a picture of it?
Is it green bubble algae or slimy reddish bubble algae?

So your tank has been setup for 7 months, since Oct 2011, right.
Have you recently changed your lights?

How long have you had your foxface and yellow tang?

Unfortunately you picked two corals which tend to take over a tank; xenia, and gsp. Everyone goes through that with those two corals
I've gone through alot with zoas. There is something eating them...or....too much or too little lighting.
How long have the zoas been in there?

you say you checked your ro unit and it was clogged, and the water sat stagnant. How long was it sitting stagnant?

Do you feed your corals?

It is green, valonia sp. i think. Tank was set up Oct 2010, so 1 year 7 months, and that is just since its last move. It was transferred from an existing 29g in march 2010.

Lights were last changed in July, I know they are coming due.

I havent seen anything eat the zoas. I had a huge asterina star population, and even though i never witnessed them eating zoa, I head they can, got the harlequin shrimp, and in 2 months the population was completely wiped out.

The RO is perfect, got new prefilters within this past year, new membrane and DI resin just before the new year. It was not clogged or stagnant at any point.

I dont target feed coral.

 

[krzyphsygy]

I'd like to hear the bubble algae solution myself. I have the green type.

IMO and Experience, buy two or three Emerald crabs..they will devour the bubble alge until its non existant. You can pull it off manually but if you pop it, it will send spores into the water and continue to spread. Emeralds cured my buble alge problem. The GPS and Xenia, IME, just keep trimming cutting and frag it out. Trade it to the LFS for cash or credit. The GPS is easy to pull off, its like lifting a rug off and floor. Cut it and glue it to LR rubble. Xenia is a little harder but you have to keep at it. Try to focus on selling it or trading it.

Dipping the zoa's was a great idea, make sure you blow it under water with a baster in the revive to loosen anything eating it. Are your fish picking at them???

 

[nstiesi]

I buy emeralds periodically. They seem to hang around a while then slowly die off....not doing much for the bubbles. Foxface eats MUCH more of the bubbles than the emeralds. I dont seem to have much luck pulling up GSP, its like the matt isnt thick enough and just doesnt peel, but that is a secondary concern for me at the moment. My fish dont pick at the zoas, no.

IMO and Experience, buy two or three Emerald crabs..they will devour the bubble alge until its non existant. You can pull it off manually but if you pop it, it will send spores into the water and continue to spread. Emeralds cured my buble alge problem. The GPS and Xenia, IME, just keep trimming cutting and frag it out. Trade it to the LFS for cash or credit. The GPS is easy to pull off, its like lifting a rug off and floor. Cut it and glue it to LR rubble. Xenia is a little harder but you have to keep at it. Try to focus on selling it or trading it.

Dipping the zoa's was a great idea, make sure you blow it under water with a baster in the revive to loosen anything eating it. Are your fish picking at them???

 

[nstiesi]

First thing that comes to mind:

- no testing for Phosphate
- not running GFO

Could be phosphate problem?

Laith

I used to run GFO. I suppose I have never run GFO and vinegar dosing at the same time. I'll have to get a much stronger pump to run that reactor if i want to go back to gfo, or just run it passively in a bag.

 

[CeeGee]

Honestly it sounds like you are not on top of your tank. Not trying to be a jerk but if GFO is clogging then you are not paying enough attention to setting up a simple reactor properly. If something that simple is causing a problem then other more complex tasks are probably suffering as well.

Phosphate probably won't show up on test kits as it is being used by the algae. If you have algae you have high phosphate. If you have enough phosphate to grow this type of algea it is probably enough to make your corals decline.

Tighten your attention to the tank. Become rigid on maintenence and watch your tank turn around. This hobby takes a lot of work and isn't for everyone.

Get the GFO reactor running properly and add a little to the reactor and change it out every couple of days. Keep detritus vacuumed up and do so every couple of days. Change filter socks every couple of days. Test frequently.

I am saying this in a very kind voice even though it doesn't reproduce in written form

I am doing these things myself and my tank is slowly coming around. A lot of these "problems" that people tell us to add this or that to take care of can be cured with the simple addition of extra attention and elbow grease. We are not really keeping animals we are keeping water. Keep the water quality high and the tank inhabitants respond accordingly.

 

[CeeGee]

I used to run GFO. I suppose I have never run GFO and vinegar dosing at the same time. I'll have to get a much stronger pump to run that reactor if i want to go back to gfo, or just run it passively in a bag.

GFO in a bag won't accomplish much. It doesn't take a lot of flow to use GFO in a reactor it takes very little actually. Too much and it destroys the GFO and you definitely don't want that to happen.

Vinegar dosing works well but you have to have a really really good protein skimmer to process the bacteria that removes nitrate and phosphate. If you don't have a great skimmer then this won't do you much good either.

 

[wireefman]

anther option for you would be to start an ATS. im going to be going this from the start on my new build.. essentially the algae from the ATS out competes the alage in the display... elimintaing it... im not much of a fan of all the other mechanical equipment and reactors as i like to watch my tank and not have to spend extra time fiddling with extra unessasary equipment. (just my opinion)..

but i do agree there are phosphates in your tank.. and you must get rid of them to rid yourself of the alagae

 

[nstiesi]

Don't worry, I am thick skinned.....

To answer you specifically, the problem with the reactor is not my setup, but most likely the strength (or lack thereof) of the supplied pump. Ive done some research on the unit after the fact and I am not the only one with the problem. I took it off line months ago rather than let it sit stagnant and become a hindrance.

I am on top of water changes and detritus vacuuming. I recently shop-vac-ed my entire sump, and have been on top of bi-weekly water changes.

Obviously I have shortcomings that are translating to the tank, but those things I have been on top of.

Honestly it sounds like you are not on top of your tank. Not trying to be a jerk but if GFO is clogging then you are not paying enough attention to setting up a simple reactor properly. If something that simple is causing a problem then other more complex tasks are probably suffering as well.

Phosphate probably won't show up on test kits as it is being used by the algae. If you have algae you have high phosphate. If you have enough phosphate to grow this type of algea it is probably enough to make your corals decline.

Tighten your attention to the tank. Become rigid on maintenence and watch your tank turn around. This hobby takes a lot of work and isn't for everyone.

Get the GFO reactor running properly and add a little to the reactor and change it out every couple of days. Keep detritus vacuumed up and do so every couple of days. Change filter socks every couple of days. Test frequently.

I am saying this in a very kind voice even though it doesn't reproduce in written form

I am doing these things myself and my tank is slowly coming around. A lot of these "problems" that people tell us to add this or that to take care of can be cured with the simple addition of extra attention and elbow grease. We are not really keeping animals we are keeping water. Keep the water quality high and the tank inhabitants respond accordingly.

 

[CeeGee]

Don't worry, I am thick skinned.....

To answer you specifically, the problem with the reactor is not my setup, but most likely the strength (or lack thereof) of the supplied pump. Ive done some research on the unit after the fact and I am not the only one with the problem. I took it off line months ago rather than let it sit stagnant and become a hindrance.

I am on top of water changes and detritus vacuuming. I recently shop-vac-ed my entire sump, and have been on top of bi-weekly water changes.

Obviously I have shortcomings that are translating to the tank, but those things I have been on top of.

That is awesome to hear. If you are in fact on top of things and putting in the work then it is just a matter of keeping on top of it and making the right choices about how to remedy the situation.

If you are willing to put in the work there is no need to throw in the towel.

What type of GFO reactor is it? I use a Two little fishes phosban reactor and basically plumbed it off of my return line and use the included ball valve to adjust flow.

 

[nstiesi]

I'd rather not quit, but ever man has his limits.

The reactor is the bulk reef supply model. I ran it with the supplied maxijet1200, and GFO tumbling is GREATLY reduced within the first 12-24 hours. I also tried running it off the return, but there was still not enough juice there.

My brother has the same model and is having luck using a mag3 with it....although he is tumbling bio pellets, and not GFO. It is on my radar to try the mag3, but I guess I am a little skeptical of the GFO helping, when it did nothing for me previously, even considering the weak feed pump.

That is awesome to hear. If you are in fact on top of things and putting in the work then it is just a matter of keeping on top of it and making the right choices about how to remedy the situation.

If you are willing to put in the work there is no need to throw in the towel.

What type of GFO reactor is it? I use a Two little fishes phosban reactor and basically plumbed it off of my return line and use the included ball valve to adjust flow.

 

[CeeGee]

Trash the BRS unit and get a cheap TLF Phosban Reactor. Get it running correctly and change out the media every couple of days. Keep your rocks blown out with a turkey baster and detritus vacuumed up and things will turn around.

It may take a while.

A mag 3 seems very excessive to tumble GFO. The stuff practically floats. I would seriously get a TLF model and later down the road if you want something nicer buy a higher end unit. I actually run two TLF reactors. One runs GFO and the other runs Warner Ecobak. Both are plumbed off my eheim 1260 return so it doesn't add any additional heat to the system. Works like a champ and I control flow rates with the included ball valves on the TLF units.

 

[emeraude1484]

I dealt with a bubble algea outbreak for ages following the "if you burst the bubble more spores wil spread"... I had the same issue with the emeralds they would die the same day or a couple days later. My LFS got a new supplier and now I have 3 living in the tank but I agree.. Not to fast with the eradication of the darn valonia. So after 2 years I gave up since the bubbles were on pretty much EVERY surface and choking corals and zoas etc, I was running GFO, changed the flow, fixed the skimmer, lowered feedings etc. I scrapped everything off and did a heavy water change at the same time. I do that ever WC now. The tank is getting better every week. I have a thread on here about the issues. We also found a rusty hair clip in the sump so maybe check for metal leaching.
All I can say is persistence is key. It'll come around!

 

[Laith]

I'd rather not quit, but ever man has his limits.

The reactor is the bulk reef supply model. I ran it with the supplied maxijet1200, and GFO tumbling is GREATLY reduced within the first 12-24 hours. I also tried running it off the return, but there was still not enough juice there.
...

But you WANT *reduced* tumbling with GFO... you don't want alot of "juice". GFO works best without high flow through it. You want it barely "boiling".

Laith

 

[nstiesi]

But you WANT *reduced* tumbling with GFO... you don't want alot of "juice". GFO works best without high flow through it. You want it barely "boiling".

Laith

By reduced I mean not really moving at all

 

[nstiesi]

I had a local reefer test my phosphates with a Hanna Checker, since the resoltion of the API kit renders it useless. They came in at .13, which isnt as bad as I was expecting. Still, the proof is in the algae. So, I have outlined a plan of attack for this thing, to try and get a hold of it, assuming still that its a nutrient problem. (I suppose there is still the possibility that the zoas are falling victim to pest or pathogen, something that the dip in Revive didn't/couldn't erradicate):

1) Water changes: I have been religious up until now, and shall continue to be, 20% every other week at minimum.
2) Vacuum sand: I have a SSB and after much reading, its worth the risk
3) Vacuum sump: This is always part of my routine maintenance anyway
4) Dose iron direct to fuge for chaeto growth: I did this in the past and had alot of success. Only stopped because I was dosing for an alveopora I bought on impulse w/o prior research. At the time the chaeto explosion was an unintended effect, but as I remember, I didnt have nuisance algae back then.
5) Filter socks: Have 4 in the mail to rotate. Look to clean them once a week or more.
6) Skim wetter
7) Leaving my BRS reactor on the shelf and ordered a Phosban 150 yesterday. Read that it shouldn't clog like the BRS does, and tumbles with less pump pressure required. Going to run GFO full time for phosphate removal
8) Continue to manually remove bubbles.
9) Still gonna try Aiptasia X on the xenia, though my emergency fluke tabs arrived yesterday. Have not ruled that out.
10) Also still interested in working on the rock, thinning it out, making it more open for flow and less detritus accumulation. Considering replacing it all, and building a pegged structure of awesomeness. That would have to coincide with a bit of a "starting over", which I am still undecided on.

Stay tuned.

 

[Ron Reefman]

It sounds like you have a lot of things going right. You have enough flow in the DT, you might shift it around a bit every so often just to keep it varied. I used MJ powerheads in my 75g. I had 3 big ones and hooked them to a RedSea wavemaker, it worked great.

GFO should help, but it takes time. Skimming wetter may help.

You lost your yellow tang and now hair algae is a bit of an issue. Have you got any other algae eaters? Get a blenny or a new yellow tang. Keep pulling the bubble algae.

You have a fuge with chaeto in it. How is it growing? If your bubble algae & hairy algae are growing, I'd think your chaeto should be growing well too? If not, look into why not. Maybe the food for the bubble and hairy algae is being delivered to the DT and not getting to the sump? Over feeding? Flow thru the sump & refugium? How about a clump of some attractive macro algae in a corner of the DT? I have some in my nem tank and it grows pretty well, I can't get chaeto in the fuge to grow at all and I think it's because the macro in the nem tank takes all the phosphates and I never have any nitrates due to DSB and coil denitrator.

Xenia and gsp... good luck. I had kenya tree coral in my old 30g and was glad to get rid of it when I switched to the 75g tank. Now my 180g has some issues with waving hand (anthelia). But it isn't quite as big a problem as xenia.