Tide Pools for home aquariums

G

GatorEngineer

New member
I am by no means an expert in marine systems but I've been really intrigued by the idea of a tidal pool.
I've seen some impressive touch tanks and such but nothing that really tried to replicate the coming and going of tides and the real flow of nature.
I've searched around but besides some aquariums have found no indication that this is a widespread or even slightly common practice as far as home marine systems are concerned.
I'd like to see if anyone has ideas or plans for implementation of some type of tidal pool or tidal zone. be it gulf of mexico mudflats or pacific jetty tidal zones, or some type of tropical reef tidal zone.
Like I said, I've seen shallow tanks, with mangroves or high rocks and large tanks that appeal to creatures like rays or horeshoe crabs but I've never seen a tank that actually attempts to replicate the daily cycles of near-shore habitats, specifically tides.
I'm trying to draft up some designs (my username isn't just for kicks) but I'd like some practical knowledge from some experienced (an inexperienced) people who've thought of or attempted such a habitat. is the idea simply not feasible?
...I wait...
 
I'm intregued by the idea.

Easiest way I could think of is to have a large reserve tank with a valve on a timer and have a slow pump pumping out the water on a timer.

My only fear would be that I think by the nature of tides, there are usually some losses every tide of things getting stuck where they shouldn't be when the water goes out, and with a set amount of livestock, one might run out fairly quickly.
 
I've seen a professional tank that replicated the tidal surge around a pier. It was a tall tank with two large wood poles against the rockwork. The water would slowly drain out of the display down to about a foot, then an insane rush of water would suddenly come crashing in at about 50 gallons a second. It was intense and the many starfish wrapped around the poles looked quite happy there.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15036820#post15036820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by khaosinc
I'm intregued by the idea.

Easiest way I could think of is to have a large reserve tank with a valve on a timer and have a slow pump pumping out the water on a timer.

My only fear would be that I think by the nature of tides, there are usually some losses every tide of things getting stuck where they shouldn't be when the water goes out, and with a set amount of livestock, one might run out fairly quickly.
Click to expand...
these are pretty much along the lines i was thinking. as far as livestock, the risk would probably be greatest for inverts and snails that stay on the high rocks.
but initially i'm not concerned about survival i'm just trying to get some ideas flowing that makes some kind of sense as to feasibility.
i don't think what Whys is talking about would fit in the space i have but it sounds very interesting and i'd love to see a tank like that.
i was talking with a friend about something similar with pilings in the tanks.
 
also, my other concern is the fact that i'm not sure if unloading water into the reservoir would somehow change the levels flowing into the sump, or during high tide if too much flow through an overflow would cause the sump to fill.
the pump i would use for a reservoir would be very small (25gph) or something comparable as opposed to one for the sump.
is anyone aware of how to calculate flow over the weirs? i feel like a learned this in my wastewater design class but once it's a semester behind you that information just leaves my brain.
jenglish, thanks for the links. the main issue i see with the bucket setup is aesthetics. i'd like to keep everything under the tank, in a stand. but the threads give me some good ideas and motivation. and the fact that they're not old, i can probably ask some people over there about their setups. thanks.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15037756#post15037756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GatorEngineer

jenglish, thanks for the links. the main issue i see with the bucket setup is aesthetics. i'd like to keep everything under the tank, in a stand. but the threads give me some good ideas and motivation. and the fact that they're not old, i can probably ask some people over there about their setups. thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm pretty active on that sight and the person setting up the system has not been around there in a while :( You may try posing this question in the DIY forum, some of the folks are always up for a challenge ;)
 
They have a tidal system at Atlantis Marine World (Riverhead, NY). The way they run it is by having a much larger system behind (5,000+ gallons?, lets just say huge) the smaller tidal tank (~1,000). They pump water in and back out of the tidal tank to raise and lower the level. Water is taken from the larger tank to be skimmed, ect. JustJoe is a higher up at Atlantis, you may want to PM him, or maybe he will chime in. It is a simply and easy solution, just not a practical one for the home aquarist.

There is also someone trying a tidal tank with plants (spartina) to make an "estuary filter" in the DIY section, here is the link to that.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1624734&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
 
their is a pretty cool tank at the smithsonian institue on the indian river lagoon in florida.

the tank has a low and high tide.

not exactly what you are planning, but it is a nice tank to check out.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15038678#post15038678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Beaun
They have a tidal system at Atlantis Marine World (Riverhead, NY). The way they run it is by having a much larger system behind (5,000+ gallons?, lets just say huge) the smaller tidal tank (~1,000). They pump water in and back out of the tidal tank to raise and lower the level. Water is taken from the larger tank to be skimmed, ect. JustJoe is a higher up at Atlantis, you may want to PM him, or maybe he will chime in. It is a simply and easy solution, just not a practical one for the home aquarist.

There is also someone trying a tidal tank with plants (spartina) to make an "estuary filter" in the DIY section, here is the link to that.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1624734&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Click to expand...
i search it
http://www.atlantismarineworld.com/exhibit-indoor-tidal-marsh.html
but they don't have much info on it. i may have to get in contact with justjoe about this... thanks for the name.
i think my idea is similar though the proportions of the tanks are not at all.
i have some drafted plans but they are already outdated i'll try and post them here and then probably move this to the DIY section once i get a solid plan of attack.
 
The Minnesota Zoo has a cold water tidal zone pool. They get surges by having water cascade down a 6" tall fake rock structure. (Think backyard pond with a fake hill for water to run down, except it comes down in waves.)

They don't replicate the tides though, just the surges in a tidal zone.
 
Several ways to do it, simplest is modified Carlson or siphons, set to low flow.

At Monterey Bay Aquarium, like all their systems, its computerized and uber trick. They use a hartford loop with flex hose for the drain. This is mounted to a skate on some threaded rod, which is turned by a computer timed stepper motor. End switches are there in case it goes wacky it cant get higher than the tanks overflow.
 
The biology department at CU had a tide tank setup in a lab in their basement when I was a grad student there (in another department). It was really cool. A huge shallow tank mounted fairly low. I didn't get a look at the workings of it.

I went back a few years ago and the whole lab had been turned into something else. I assume that it had been a grad student project and it left when the student did.
 
The simple way is a series of overflows with solenoid valves. The high tide overflow is left valveless and will double as the emergency overflow should the lower level drain valves stick. Next to the high tide overflow, you simply plump in a series of successively lower overflows on soleniod valves hooked to a timer. As each excessively lower overflow opens, the tide drops, then reverse the process to raise the tide. Your sump needs to be large enough to contain all the excess water at low tide, while also having enough to operate at high tide.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15042043#post15042043 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
Several ways to do it, simplest is modified Carlson or siphons, set to low flow.

At Monterey Bay Aquarium, like all their systems, its computerized and uber trick. They use a hartford loop with flex hose for the drain. This is mounted to a skate on some threaded rod, which is turned by a computer timed stepper motor. End switches are there in case it goes wacky it cant get higher than the tanks overflow.
Click to expand...

Love that place. When I go behind the scenes I much prefer to gawk at the technology, plumbing & craftsmanship then anything else. Well same goes for any aquatic place really, even sewer treatment facilities :lol: But you know this about me :P
 
Gresh,
You mean MBA has fish? Must have missed it while enjoying the latest 4 1000g RK2s, huge surges, and jelly tanks the size of my house.
Going there Saturday to hook up some new pumps!:cool:

The simplest tide setup I've seen simply used a siphon. A U tube was in the display. Water from the sump below was fed at a slow rate to simulate the rising tide. Once it got full enough the siphon would start and very slowly drain the tank down to low tide (siphon break). Very easy with a small pump and a couple of small valves to control the flow :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15047881#post15047881 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barnett8
I am currently making a salt marsh biotope that has a simple tidal sequence (6 hour to fill 6 hours to drain twice a day.) If you wanna check it out here is the link: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1624734
Click to expand...
someone linked yours above and i went through it. pretty interesting idea, never really thought of that but it'd be really nice to see it work out.
my ultimate goal would be to have a controller handling the lighting and ebb and flow so it matches according to an almanac or something of the like.
but first, just like in your case, i'd just like to see a tidal change regardless of timing but i do want to control the flow so it's not a surge back and forth.
 
this is a little sketch i did in CAD
i was initially thinking coast to coast overflow but now i'm thing perhaps center hidden by rocks. i have better sketches than these, but it might give everyone a better idea of what i'm trying to accomplish. 4'x4'x16" rimless with a seperate sump and reservoir setup under the tank. i might be able to get my updated drawings tomorrow. it shows a vortech mp-40 on the wall and sand sloping from 3" to 1.5"
TANK1.jpg

TANK2.jpg
 
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