Time for an ATS?

[mpderksen]

My biggest issue with this hobby is GHA. Nothing makes me want to sell everything more than this. I had been doing great for many months and now I see patches of it again. I had shut down my GFO/carbon reactor for a while and maybe that was the tipping point. I changed the media today and it running again. With 1/2 cup of ROX and BRS GFO. Twice what is needed for a 75g.
In the past I've used sea hares, abalone, turbos etc. and nothing made a dent. I eventually suspected my rock, that was given to me by someone that used tap water for years. Phosphate leaching was all I could think of. For the last year since the complete change, the tank has only had GHA in the overflow. So I painted the cover to black it out, and at least slow the growth.
Now that I'm seeing early signs again, I'm worried. Is a turf scrubber really the only answer in this hobby? I see so many pictures of tanks without algae problems, and yet rarely see an ATS in their sump. My various herbivores clearly aren't keeping up. So do I just build one? And if I do, does it completely replace my skimmer? I'm all for advances, but reefers have been creating successful tanks for decades. What am I missing?

 

[thegrun]

Herbivores only mask the problem at best, the algae can be beaten but it is important to keep up with the GFO and continue to try to reduce the nutrients. The phosphates will eventually quit leaching out of the rocks but only if you keep the water clean. On the clean up crew side it's hard to beat a good tuxedo urchin for mowing down the algae.

 

[Volcmreefer]

Have you tested your water for phosphates? Keep up with the GFO. Maybe take out the rock and acid wash and dose Lanthanum Chloride for a week or two in a brute container if you suspect rocks are leaching if you have to. Don't give up!

 

[snorvich]

Herbivores only mask the problem at best, the algae can be beaten but it is important to keep up with the GFO and continue to try to reduce the nutrients. The phosphates will eventually quit leaching out of the rocks but only if you keep the water clean. On the clean up crew side it's hard to beat a good tuxedo urchin for mowing down the algae.

What he said.

 

[fishgate]

An ATS is one of the best natural ways to keep algae in check.

 

[mpderksen]

To clarify, I tossed ALL the old rock and restarted with some freshly cycled Reef Saver about a year ago. So it's not likely to be the rocks. I have had a tuxedo urchin since the beginning too. I'm not overstocked. The feeder uses NLS pellets 3x/day and all gets eaten.
My sock used to start to overflow after 4-5 days, but now it can go for weeks. Maybe u should still clean it weekly. In some ways, adding the feeder and AWC made it easy, other ways it allowed a few things to slip.
I resist the Scrubber idea primarily mainly cause I don't want another pump and the lights (pretty cramped in the sump already)

 

[CStrickland]

I have a love/hate with my feeder. I relied on it for a 3 month internship to make things easier for the sitter, it took another 7 months to get over the gha. It really did look like the fish were eating everything that came out. Idk, I guess it's like you can be just this side of the line where your export can keep with your import, and the feeder puts you over. To catch up you can't just go back to where you were, you have to do more.

Carbon dosing worked well for me, since I'm not a fan of lots of contraptions either. I do some frequent small wcs like an awc does, to keep trace elements stable, but I don't rely on it for export. I still vacuum the sand every week. I think it helps a lot.

What are your numbers for nitrate and phosphate?
Are you testing the outflow from the gfo reactor too so you can replace it when it's worm out?
Is there any rhyme or reason to the location of the patches you're seeing? Like there are dead spots in your flow that let poop settle on the rocks and rot such that a high nutrient area gets going and then the gha can trap more poop in a viscous cycle?

 

[JammyBirch]

Huge fan of the ATS...for $5 and 15 minutes why not.

I feed my tank and i'm not going to stop, my fish eat everything but that just makes more poop so it all adds up the same. My SPS corals need some nutrients so i give it to them.

The beauty of the ATS is that it provides realestate for the the GHA and Cyano too, to grow and compete with the DT.

I've had no luck with GFO, i frankly think it's a waste of time. I DIY'd an ATS about a month ago, it has both GHA and Cyano on it, been battling that from an infected coral, both are growing well on the ATS. I don't have GHA problem in fact the GHA i have in the system is what is growing on the ATS, i have a GBA, Green Bubble Algae, problem and it's growing less too.

I'd make one, go to YouTube and check out the DIY projects.

 

[JammyBirch]

i have one other snip-it of data, a friend of mine has a lawnmower blenny and it wiped out the GHA infestation he had going on in his tank. So there are other options, the natural ones i like the best i just can't add anymore fish or an emerald crap to my tiny tank so ATS was a good move for me.

 

[mpderksen]

I'll test the water, but in my experience PO4 readings are pretty useless since the GHA sequesters it. You make a good point about dead spots. Since the AWC went online 15 months ago, I no longer blast the rocks weekly with the fill tube like I used to do. One of the two areas is low between a large pipe organ and a much larger Torch. The flow hits the top well enough, but maybe the coral has grown enough to "shade" the part? The other patch is more concerning. It's in one of my 2 hammers and I only saw it when the coral retracted after I cleaned the glass. But that area is getting great flow, and it's certainly not on the rocks below it.
I'm hesitant to add a lawnmower bleenie (had one a long time ago and they're very cool) since my tank already has a lot of grazers. My fear would be that it would get it all, then starve. I haven't lost a fish in 2+ years, and I want to keep the streak going.
I guess I could take the line that comes off the manifold that feeds my reactor and use it to run the scrubber. The fugelight is already controlled by the Apex, so I would just need to change the bulb. In a perfect setup I could run both for a while, but that would require some pretty serious plumbing changes. My turnover is already pretty low, since the flow goes through my chiller full time, which adds a lot of restriction. Reading up, it looks like I need about a 10" X 10" screen (lit on one side) for my 75, and at 35gph/linear inch, that's 350gph just for the scrubber. I'd like to avoid a second pump, (like to separate the chiller to its own) or have to upgrade my return. Currently I have a QuietOne 5000, I think.
Do you think I should keep the GFO cranking again for awhile, really blast the rocks and give it some time? I blacked out the cover of my overflow, since it used to grow GHA when it was uncovered, so I removed the cover for now, hoping it might preferentially grow there again.

 

[Crush Coral]

I feel your pain. Been in the battle for a couple years. Nothing touches my gha. Tried turbo sanils, sea hairs, urchin, tangs, carbon dosing. Just added a sump and gfo reactor about 6 weeks ago. I have chatoe and gha growing in the sump under 24 hr lighting from a 54 watt red and blue LED light. Gha in the tank still grows faster than in the sump and the tank only gets light 4 hrs per day. I did a 35% h2o change yesterday one week after the last h2o chnges and after the water chng my po4 was .06!!!!!!!! I hope the po4 is just pouring out of my rock. I have 2 cups of phosban in my reactor. See we all hate this stuff.

 

[wildman926]

An ATS is one of the best natural ways to keep algae in check.

My sentiments exactly

I resist the Scrubber idea primarily mainly cause I don't want another pump and the lights

Ditch something in order to make room.

I feed my tank and i'm not going to stop, my fish eat everything but that just makes more poop so it all adds up the same.

The beauty of the ATS is that it provides realestate for the the GHA and Cyano too, to grow and compete with the DT.

I DIY'd an ATS about a month ago, it has both GHA and Cyano on it, been battling that from an infected coral, both are growing well on the ATS. I don't have GHA problem in fact the GHA i have in the system is what is growing on the ATS, i have a GBA, Green Bubble Algae, problem and it's growing less too.

This is a great testimonial for using an ATS.

Do you think I should keep the GFO cranking again for awhile, really blast the rocks and give it some time?

Ditch the GFO, and replace it with an ATS.

I have ran mine, in conjunction with a chaeto reactor, and have had 0 algae issues in the display tanks. It is a natural way of reducing excess nutrients, which is why you have a hair algae problem. HTH

 

[CStrickland]

I'll test the water, but in my experience PO4 readings are pretty useless since the GHA sequesters it.

yeah, but it's good to know that your gfo hasn't run out - if the water coming from the reactor has as much PO4 as the water going into it, you're just spinning your wheels. Also, the way I see it, it's not that important how you are removing nutrients. So, maybe you use a DSB, maybe GFO, maybe skimmer or skimmer + carbon, maybe ATS, whatever. You have a certain amount of phos and nitrates in the water, and you are trying to rig something that will "catch" them before the GHA does. Which way you do it is more about personal taste, space, and secondary benefits. Either way, if you can get an idea of how much there is that needs catching, that can help you tailor your export catcher. Low nitrates and high phos might do better with gfo, whereas high nitrates and low phos might respond to detritus removal.
Sort of a "know your enemy" approach.

Re: your original question, no an ATS is not the only answer. It's just one tool to export as much fertilizer as you import. I don't see any point to running a fuge and an ATS unless your cultivating pods for a mandarin or something. Overcomplicated and redundant systems can get overwhelming and frustrating. IMO it's better to do a few husbandry practices well, than it is to half-measure several.