Time to ask for some help

[Doobze]

Hey all, been following the boards for a while, and I've been in the hobby for about 3 years, but this is my first attempt to maintain a dedicated SPS system.

The system is about a year old, however, due to an ich outbreak in my first fish I put it, I ran the system fishless for a while, so the tank didn't really get populated until about February, so I generally consider that to be the beginning of the tank.

So, a little background on the tank: It's a 58g with a 20 long sump, I calculated it all out one day, and it comes to about 50g total water volume. I'm a college student with not as much time to devote to the tank, so I designed the system to be as maintenance free as possible. So, it's barebottom, with a MP40WEs on full blast NTM with 2x Koralia Evo 750s on the opposing wall hooked up the wavemaker function on my RKL, all in effort for lots of flow that will keep my display clean, and it does a really good job of it, I hardly ever have to siphon anything.

I also keep up on daily 1g water changes. So much easier to do than even a 5g weekly change.

I've also placed a K3 in my overflow and a Koralia Nano in my sump, just to keep things suspended everywhere.

As far as other equipment, here's the breakdown:
1x 250w Radium about 15" above the water surface.
RKL controlling fans and heaters and my 2 part dosing, so my temp is consistently 76-77.5. My Alk is about 9-10.


So, my problem is the usual one, color. After I stocked it with a few test frags, I overfed a bit and my N03 went up to 20-25ppm and my P04 went to .15 ppm. So I quickly threw some GFO in there for the P04, about half the recommended BRS dosage because I've seen GFO pale out corals when used too aggressively before. This quickly brought my P04 to 0 ppm on my Hanna checker, but my N03 refused to fall. So I turned to MB7 and Biofuel, starting with 1/4 dosage of the label with the Biofuel. Unfortunately, I didn't remove my GFO, and I think the combination turned my tank water sterile basically. All my frags lost a lot of their color during this period. This coincided with a huge explosion of what looked like thick brown hair algae, followed by a GHA explosion. Both were eradicated fully with 6 turbo snails and 10 more ceriths. After realizing what had happened, I removed the GFO and stopped Mb7 and Biofuel. This corresponded with somewhat of a return in color the color and after taking a more moderate approach to feeding (2x a day with spectra pellets half the week, and a cube of hikari mysis over 2 feedings the other half, also 2 scoops of Reef Chilli 3x a week per instructions on the label) my P04 seems to remain undetectable on my Hanna meter without the use of GFO, but my NO3 hangs out around 20ppm still.

Normally I wouldn't care about the number, the the progress of my coral also seems to have plateaued. There is growth, but progress in the color department has halted to my eyes. Even new frags who haven't endured the stress of the ones that have been there eventually lose their color until they equal out at about the same color saturation as the rest.

I've thoroughly inspected for pests. I am a poor, broke *** college student who's tank already takes up much of my living room in my little apartment, I doubt that my roommate would stand for my installation of another tank to run a proper quarantine haha, and I don't have the money or time to run one anyways. So I do what I can to keep my coral safe, because my previous attempt to keep SPS in my mixed tank ended in a pest filled disaster. I drained the tank for several weeks before rebooting it with all dry BRS rock. No coral and no acros touched the water of the tank for months. I buy from 2 sources, a local vendor who I trust, yet still dip absolutely everything I get from them in a quadruple strength 15 minute Revive dip before it hits the tank. The other is LiveAquaria, who I trust pretty well, yet still inspect everything with a magnifying glass under the lights. The point is, trust me, I've inspected to death and I definitely know what the symptoms of pests and what the pests themselves look like, so I will say with 100% confidence that there are no SPS pests in this tank haha.

Also, one more weird quirk. According to 3 different test kits (2 salifert, 1 elos) my MG sits at around 1700 ppm for no discernible reason whatsoever. I've used Seachem Reef salt, so I don't think it should be that high. And I use BRS 2 part, which is pretty straight in its ingredients, so it shouldn't be elevating it. But it's been like that since the tank's inception. I don't dose any Mg at all, so this one's got me stumped. My alk and Ca stay stable though, so I don't pay it too much mind.

Now, I've seen what colorless coral look like due to lack of nutrients and feeding. And I've seen em when they're in too dirty of water. But for the life of me, I can't tell what my coral need right now. So far, I've tentatively embarked on a strategy of daily MB7 and 1 full dose 1 day a week of BF wit no GFO in an attempt to bring my N03 down. But I'm not seeing a whole lot of change and I don't think my N03 has come down a whole lot (elos kit). So I'm not sure what exactly to do. Should I increase the frequency of BF and attempt to feed more to compensate for the wholesale nutrient-stripping that BF does to my water? Because I'm also concerned that my P04 is undetectable on my checker, all of my experience (and I have some working in all aquacultured coral shop here in Berkeley and was actually successful at helping to revive many of the distressed acros there) says that I should have at least a tiny amount, less the .04 ppm, to really get the coral color and growth that I want. I would greatly appreciate some experienced opinions about what you guys would do with this tank to really get it to shine. I'm missing like one little piece of the recipe that'll make this tank great, I can feel it, I just don't know what it is and am afraid that the wrong change will only send it further backwards as has often happened.

So, sorry for the information overload, I feel like I wrote a little novel here haha, but I just want to make sure you guys are 100% informed on the specifics of this tank because I know how different everybody's is.

So, in a further effort to distill the parameters and set up of the tank for quick reference, here's some stats:

H20 Parameters
SG: 1.026
Temp: 76-77.5 F
dKH: 9-10.6
Ca: 440-460 ppm
N03: 20 ppm
P04: 0 ppm (per Hanna Checker)
MG: 1700 ppm

Equipment
Lighting: 1 x250w Radium run on a Galaxy select-a-watt, 15" above water,
bulb is 4 months old
Flow: 1x MP40wES on 100% nutrient transport mode, 2x Koralio Evos on
opposite tank wall, connected to randomizing wavemaker
Sump: 20g long
Skimmer: Reef Octopus Extreme 160, stock
Salinity controlled by ATO
All water is RO/DI measureing 0 TDS in and out. Berkeley tap water is pretty clean, my RO/DI barely has to work.

Feeding and Dosing
(I'll just put the frequency of each, just know that they do overlap, and that I space them so that I think the tank is getting a roughly even amount of food input)

Spectrum Pellets Thera-A Regular Formula 1mm: 5 days a week, 2x a day, 2 pinches per feeding, enough to form a single layer of pellets pinched between two fingers

Hikari Mysis: 3 days a week, 2x feedings per day, 1/2 cube per feeding, so one total cube of mysis on the days I feed it to the tank.

Reef Chilli: 3 days a week, 1x feeding per day, 2 scoops per feeding
MB7: 10ml daily
BF: 5ml 1x weekly
BRS 2 part: dosed for 18 sec every hour by dosing pumps and my RKL, haven't calculated that daily dosage, but it stays stable, minus one or two second adjustments every now and then

Miscellaneous Tank Info
Dimensions (the height is of the actual water column, because my tank is a modified rimless the water doesn't reach all the way to the rim): 36 x 18 x 18.

Fish stock: 1x Royal Gramma Basslet, 1x McCosker's Flasher Wrasse, 2x Black Ocellaris, 2x Black Fang Blenny, 3x Blue/Green Chromis. All are pretty much full grown, minus an inch or two spread out amongst all of them.

CUC: 15 cerith snails (at least I think it's still 15 haha), 5 Astraea snails a little bigger than a quarter each, 6 golf ball sized turbos (I only ordered 5, but I guess I got the extra one for funsies? Haha, I was shocked at the size of these things, but they have since become some my favorite things in the tank, and they keep it PRISTINE)

And some pics. My friend came over with her brand new $5k camera set up, so I had her snap some pics. No tripod, so the focus and sharpness isn't the best on some shots, but the colors are very very accurate to what you see in person. If anything, these shots actually overrepresent the vibrancy and saturation of the true colors by just a tiny bit.

As you can see, I have at least one or two frags doing okay, namely my Green Slimer which just consistently glows green and to a lesser extent my ORA Sunset Peach Digi, the main body has more tan in it than the pics show, but it's grown a bit and it's growth tips have a nice orange/pink kind of twinkle to em.

For the purposes of my problem, ignore the extremely pale tannish smooth skinned acro, I didn't recognize it as a species being adverse to dips, so my dipping proved to be too aggressive for it and instantly stripped it of color, so it's color issues are independent of everything else's.

So, take a look at the pics and let me have it, tell me what I'm doing wrong, doing right, what you guys would do to really make this something to look at down the road. I'd really appreciate it!

 

[James404]

I would stop adding the MB7 and Biofuel and focus on the basics: Nutrient Export. As the saying goes, the solution to pollution is dillution. Do water changes to reduce your nitrates. To me it looks like you need to cut down on your feeding as well. JMO

 

[Doobze]

At nearly 30% changeover per month, I was reluctant to actually be any more aggressive with my water changes. But I'll do what I gotta do haha

 

[Islander84]

i would just cut back on the feeding. doesnt look like enough livestock for that much feeding... i barely feed that much and i have way more live stock..you would be suprised how far a little goes. and you will notice a big drop in nitrates with cutback on feeding... those little fish feed on pods throughout the day so you woulnt have to worry about starving them by cutting back on feeding.

 

[Doobze]

Ok, the only reason I have been feeding that much is because traditionally my problem is been nutrient deficiency, so I guess this time I've been wary of feeding too little. And the fish pretty much clear the water column of mysis in about 3 minutes, these guys are voracious haha.

What would you guys recommend I feed and how much? My system does seem to have a healthy population of pods, feather dusters are starting to really explode too, and I'm getting SOME coralline growth, although not very fast growth and it's kind of pale. Nothing I can really notice on the rocks either. Also, a side note, I only have to wipe the glass every 3 or 4 days or so.

 

[Islander84]

keep your mag levels up(1300) not 1700(very bad)! :O.. and your coralline will grow good. if all you have are the 6 little guys i would cut back on the mysis to 1x feed a day 2 or 3 x week and i would cut back on pellets to 1x a day and on the reef chili if the scoop is a tsp. i would do a half of a scoop 3x per week. my system is about 220 gal and i do 1tsp of coral frenzy pretty much same as reefchili 3x a week and im stocked with about 75 sps frags(2inch +) 2 large sps colonies(10" x 10") and 1 large chalice about 6 inch 30 eyes

 

[Doobze]

Oh, no, it's not a tsp, it's the little scoop that comes with the little vial of Reef Chilli, pretty small. I'll see what I can do about the feeding schedule, anytime I have to do less with the tank I'm down, haha, this tank's concept is supposed to be a fairly efficient, streamlined design in its operations, so adding and doing less is ok by me.

As for my mag levels, I have no explanation for why they're that high, I don't dose anything with mag in it and I'm not too entirely sure what to do about it. Would it have an effect on color and growth?

 

[Islander84]

it can defintely have effects on those.

 

[Doobze]

Well shoot. Anybody got any ideas why my mag would be that high?

 

[Islander84]

check the mag level in your salt and go form there

 

[neoalchemist74]

I dissagree with your mag level being a problem, in fact I think you're test results are suspect. If your mag was that high you would likely have a dificiecy in either alk or cal. the scales have to tip in either direction

 

[tmgrash]

I dissagree with your mag level being a problem, in fact I think you're test results are suspect. If your mag was that high you would likely have a dificiecy in either alk or cal. the scales have to tip in either direction

Not exactly. Higher mag would actually allow you to have elevated cal and alk. But, I agree that mag isnt your problem. I would suggest stop changing your "technique, or strategy" and let things stabilize. Your corals are also still very small, mine typically start coloring up well as they develop into colonies.

 

[Doobze]

Yeah, I have noticed some very slight improvements, but it seems to fluctuate, and it might just be me being hopeful and staring too much at my frags haha. But I am going to lessen my feeding to the amount Islander84 recommended and see if my nitrates come down with daily water changes and just running things simply I think.

As for my mag, I mean, I could go out and get a fourth test kit, but I've had 3 different kits by 2 different companies come up with the same number, so I'm reasonably satisfied with the accuracy of it. It's a weird little quirk and it's been that way since the tank's inception.

 

[allsps40]

I would stop adding the MB7 and Biofuel and focus on the basics: Nutrient Export. As the saying goes, the solution to pollution is dillution. Do water changes to reduce your nitrates. To me it looks like you need to cut down on your feeding as well. JMO

Plus1 vodka MB7 was bad for my tank. Keep it simple.

 

[iriejp1]

Mine always stayed at 1500 too...and I was using Reef Crystals and not dosing anything. Now I dose 1/2 cup of mag flake mix and it still stays at 1500 (ELOS). I think the mag tests are screwy...lol.

 

[Doobze]

It's weird, I actually originally filled this tank up with Reef Crystals water and my last bucket for my previous mixed tank was also when I was getting 1600-1700 mag readings. Anecdotal, but a weird coincidence. I actually have gotten around to testing my newly made water (Seachem Reef Salt), school's got me doing some weird hours.

I know, every time I've tried to utilize some sort of carbon dosing to help me out it's always ended up being a really bad decision for the tank, even when starting off slow. One day I really want to figure it out to get some truly crazy colors.

 

[Doobze]

Well, it's been a few weeks now, I've cut down my feeding to 1x per day, but honestly, it seems as though my corals have gotten worse. They just look kind of gray. There's still some growth happening though. My nitrates are still at 25ppm, which is the max for the elos kit, so they could be even higher.

One thing I've been thinking of is a new skimmer. I've just never been happy the Oct Extreme 160 I have, the neck is too wide and the skimmer is too big for my system, so I've never really collected much of a decent skimmate, it either overflows or just gets some crud on the neck. I was thinking of grabbing the Super Reef Octopus XP 1000, rated for a smaller system and with a a much narrower neck. What do you guys think?

 

[clowndude]

Just my observation, but I don't see any coraline anywhere in your tank. Your rock almost looks brand new to me. You say that the tank has been running for a year, but I would think your rocks would be covered in coralline by now. If your tank isn't well enough established it could be part of the reason your having problems with your sps. Another thing is I would quit with the carbon dosing. I honestly dont think you have enough fish load to even warrant running it. Others might dispute that, but the systems that I have seen running a good carbon dose either supplement like crazy or have a high fish load were they are feeding a lot. Also I might have missed it but how long are you running your lights for?

Just my two cents

 

[Doobze]

There is some coralline growing, mostly on my plastic, but it's not very purple either and it's growing kind of slowly. There is some on the rocks, but it's like speckles and doesn't really seem to be taking off at all. The tank has had water for a year, but I only started stocking it with fish around February. I haven't been carbon dosing for several weeks now. I run my lights for 6 hrs a day, the 250w radium (galaxy select a watt) is 15" off the water surface, the water column is 18" tall.

 

[klepto]

There is some coralline growing, mostly on my plastic, but it's not very purple either and it's growing kind of slowly. There is some on the rocks, but it's like speckles and doesn't really seem to be taking off at all.

What are you using to test for alkalinity and Ca levels? It seems like you should have more coralline growth granted the high flow in your tank.

Perhaps your test isn't yielding accurate results, and alkalinity is actually off, and is limiting calcification. Have you tested your dKH with numerous kits to be sure?

Also, while your current practice of 1gallon water changes may be simple and allow for stability, it is not the best means of nutrient export. Doing large volume water changes (10%) will more effectively reduce your nitrate levels.

In regards to feeding, I would recommend that you stop feeding the Reef Chili because it likely isn't offering much benefit and is only polluting the tank. Keep up the regular feedings of NLS pellet- just pay attention to the quantity to minimize left-overs. Slow thaw your mysis in cold water (ideally clean saltwater) and pour off the water that it thaws in before feeding out to your tank. That will minimize excess nutrients.