Tiny Maxima

I'll offer my two scutes.
I talk with three major Tridacna clam farmers monthly.
None of them feed their farm clams with any form of supplemental plankton.
They all do however, when they want to get them to grow faster ...feed with nitrogen/ammonia fertilizer pellets.
But they understand that they are actually feeding the tiny zooxanthella inside the clams , more so then the clams themselves.
They also don't suggest hobbyists feed clams in their aquarium anything other then ammonia in the form of fish waste.
There are many studies comparing clam growth with and without fish in the system. Fishless systems always yield slower growth.
It's the constant supply of ammonia feeding the zooxanthella which is important.
I have studied clams for a few years now; under the microscope, one can clearly witness the zooxanthella inside a clam's blood stream and stomach along with amoebsites which farm the zooxanthella, a little bacteria and not much else.....
But oddly enough , I have never found plankton?[neither zoo plankton or phytoplankton] EVEN after days of target feeding.
It seems that when fed, clams do filter out plankton from the water and it can be found concentrated on their gills. But with filter feeders, they filter every thing in the water, so the plankton gets stuck to their gills just like every thing else in the aquarium water.
[ Just like filter floss would stain out indiscriminately ]
Just because the clam filters the water , does not mean the clam is eating the plankton.
In order to be eaten , the clam must ingest the plankton.
Ingesting food is carried out when the clams gills allow only certain substances to pass through their membranes. Kinda like a reverse osmosis filter.
Most of what a tridacna clam filters with its gills is ultimately pooped out or coughed up before it ever gets into the clams digestive system.
Clams dont even let non motile zooxanthella past their gills.
Preferring zooxanthella with tails. It is thought that its the swimming action of the zoos tails that triggers the opening of the gates so to speak and into its stomach.
Some feel that yes, clams do seem to have the appropriate mouth parts to feed and therefor nature would not of designed them with such mouth parts for feeding if they did not intend to make use these feeding abilities.....
BUT! One could ague that the sole use for this feeding ability is to take in Zooxanthella .
Afterall, without his ability to feed on Zooxanthella , baby clams would die . Baby clams are not born with zooxanthella inside their body.
Giant clams may simply use this feeding ability as a way to inoculate themselves with zooxanthella.
As humans, we have several uder utilized organs, such as our tonsils, appendix and for many of us , our "better judgement"

Furthermore, There are reports of clams choking on too much plankton paste and it clogging their gills and clams dying from too much of a good thing in over fed, low pH,nutrient rich aquariums.from overfeeding. Contrary to a misconception, clams dont like high Nitrate levels.
I at times wonder if the bad rap small calms get for being difficult to raise, comes more from hobbyists killing small clams by feeding them........then these young clams would do if just treated like any other coral or anemone, with proper water conditions and a well cycled tank?
 
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The main reason that clam farmers do not feed phytoplankton to juvi clams is b/c the fecundity of clams is so high that they dont need to. When they take into account the labor intesive algae cultures, space required, time, and cost it's just not worth it. They get so many clams from one spawn that they are already culling and throwing away excess dull colored ones to make room for the ultra/1st grades when they use no plankton. Plankton DOES lead to a greater survivability rate in juvi clams. Here is an quote from a ctsa publication:
"Giant clam larvae can be raised to metamorphosis without any external source of food. However, feeding giant clam larvae starting on day three post spawn has been shown to greatly improve survival. Feeding should take place once every two days until zooxenthella populations are well established in the gut. Despite evidence showing improved survival of larvae that are given food, many culturalists choose not to feed larvae, citing the extremely high fecundity of giant clams reduces the importance of improved larval survival."

Now, this is talking specifically about clam larvae/juvis, not 1-2" clams. At that size, I agree that all that is need is good water quality and lighting. As Kalkbreath said, they use ammonium nitrate(Liquid form IME) to directly feed the zooxenthella at a rate of 4g/1000l water every morning to inrease the nitrogen levels enough for the rest of the day. Amonium nitrate has been shown to signifacantly increase clam growth and improve conditions in land based systems. I have seen Tridacna Maxima larvae under a stereo microscope and you can clearly see the algae present in the gut. As the populations of zooxenthella increase, the % of algae decreases.
 
I'd like to see where corals do better with supplemental feedings also because I don't believe that at all. I could possibly see corals that require feedings like dendros but SPS and LPS do not need supplemental feedings by any means.

I also agree that clams do not need phyto and if not done correctly can actually kill them. I've had a few clams that I've never used phyto on that has grown as fast as any other clam that has had it. This was done by a friend who swore it made em grow quicker.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9429544#post9429544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jay24k
I'd like to see where corals do better with supplemental feedings also because I don't believe that at all. I could possibly see corals that require feedings like dendros but SPS and LPS do not need supplemental feedings by any means.

I hope you are kidding... Do you not feed your fish because you have live rock and there is food for them that grows out of it???

Humans also do not need feeding they can survive for a week on air and water alone, heck if they have decent fat stores maybe longer.... Why starve your corals, clams, and other critters when proper foods are available???

If you want to see a coral feeding response put a teaspoon of brine shrimp or clam juice in your tank. Corals also extend their polyps most at night, funny how that coincides perfectly with plankton, both phyto and zoo, blooms...

This thread has become the polar opposite of the orignal post that was taken out of context and lead people to believe that clams would die without feedings. Clams and corals with photosynthetic zoox can survive on light and clean water, but they do not do so in the wild and should not be forced to solely survive in this sterile manner in our tanks. When you purchase a living thing you take responsibility for its quality of life and well being, respect your critters.
 
The question we need to ask, is not do corals eat?
...or even if clams eat.
The question is do they eat what we feed them ?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9432822#post9432822 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
is that missing person ben affleck? :D

It is Calfo. I need to change it out...

Here is a link to the sticky at the top of this very forum. There are some great articles here that show the usefulness of feeding your tank. Just try to take into account that DT's funded the research, take from it what you will.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70806
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9433150#post9433150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Atticus
It is Calfo. I need to change it out...

Here is a link to the sticky at the top of this very forum. There are some great articles here that show the usefulness of feeding your tank. Just try to take into account that DT's funded the research, take from it what you will.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70806

the DT's article the Shimek wrote is BS, i was trying to be nice earlier when i said "an article" i was talking about that article. if you read that article and look at the references that Shimek cites, then go read what he cites, Shimek spun and twisted them to craft an article for DT's to sell phyto. he omitted thing from those references that would flat out disprove his own article.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9433870#post9433870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
the DT's article the Shimek wrote is BS, i was trying to be nice earlier when i said "an article" i was talking about that article. if you read that article and look at the references that Shimek cites, then go read what he cites, Shimek spun and twisted them to craft an article for DT's to sell phyto. he omitted thing from those references that would flat out disprove his own article.

Im so glad that Im not the only one that feels that way! I read through those cites and it was a joke!
 
I had just been at the MGM in Vegas where the rainforest cafe has numerious acrylic tanks. The first thing I noted was every tank looked extremly cloudy, and I thought there filteration system sucked. However on close examination it appeared to be the type of acrylic the tanks were made of. The surface was not the super clear that you get even with standard grade glass.

Now I have seen Starfire glass, and will say that in larger tanks with thicker glass it is a big big improvement over regular glass. However on smaller tanks with less than 1/'4" glass I'm not sure if the difference is worth the extra money.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9387138#post9387138 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prugs
Nope.
You could get an acrylic or starfire glass tank, that would help.
 
Kalkbreath wrote:

"I have studied clams for a few years now; under the microscope, one can clearly witness the zooxanthella inside a clam's blood stream... I have never found plankton?[neither zoo plankton or phytoplankton] EVEN after days of target feeding... Ingesting food is carried out when the clams gills allow only certain substances to pass through their membranes. "

Zoox aren't found in the bloodstream, they are kept in a specialized system of tubes called the zooxanthellal tubular system. And the gills don't let things "pass through their membranes". Particulates are sorted and passed to the labial palps, then injested by the mouth, which leads to the stomach. Also, numerous studies have found phyto in their stomachs, as well as some other things, including zooplankton.

Really, this entire subject is covered in great detail in my book, but I can throw this in too. I was successfully keeping clams in 1993 - before there was any such thing as phyto in a bottle. DT's hadn't even been "invented" yet - it came out in 1996. I'd never even heard of trying to feed them anything - and they didn't die. I started a maintenance business in 1996 and had numerous clams in customers tanks - and never used phyto in any of them, until I started using live sand beds in a few tanks in maybe 1999. Never noticed any change in growth/survival of clams. That's how I knew DT's/Shimek's article was wrong before I ever looked at any of the references. Yes, it is complete BS.
 
Oh yeah, the change in color with a change in viewing angle is normal. It's due to little reflective structures in the mantle called iridophores. Has nothing to do with glass/acrylic. Also covered in the book.
 
I am so glad critterkeeper and mmbuna have the time to post on this board. I get so much info from them it is great. thank you both for you time and (as it seem) neverending effort to bring correct information to us "clam newbies".
BTW I have been keeping clams for 3 yrs and I have dosed Phyto 3x a week from the start. I always learn something from you guys.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9434656#post9434656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by critterkeeper
Oh yeah, the change in color with a change in viewing angle is normal. It's due to little reflective structures in the mantle called iridophores. Has nothing to do with glass/acrylic. Also covered in the book.

Thanks for the info:
Now I don't feel bad having a high iron content glass tank.
 
There is no need for supplemental feedings or extra feedings for corals. The food you feed your tank is not consumable by the corals. If you did perhaps feed food that is small enough, they could possibly consume it. Also fish waste can benefit corals but when you say supplemental, to me that means adding food specifically for corals. I've known a few people who have successfully kept a tank without ever feeding it. They have a very diverse life in the tank which keeps the cycle going.

Like I've stated, feel free to show proof where feedings on clams make them grow any quicker then a healthy clean tank with sufficient lighting. To me, it is not only a waste of money, but also polluting the tank.
 

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