TitusvileSurfer
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TitusvileSurfer
New member
I totally agree with Beerguy. The SX10 IS is a very capable camera. I think it would do very well and would easily recommend it for a reef. Choosing between the two however, I would take the G10 hands down. It really is a superior camera and worth the wait if your willing. The G10 is as close as you can get to a DSLR without actually getting a DSLR IMO. Oh and uh, thanks for the flattering post! =)
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MrSandman
Team RC
The G10 is a nice camera but it just got an "average" review over at www.dpreview.com a few days ago. Looks like its actually taken a step back from the G9. The P&S camera that i'm really eyeing is the Panasonic DMC-LX3. Fast lens, and some of the best low noise/high ISO performance in its class. I am a Canon nut, but unfortunately, the G10 looks outclassed by the Panasonic. I really wish i still had my G5 though! 
TitusvileSurfer
New member
The Panasonic DMC-LX3 is a wonderful camera. For reef tanks, I am not so sure as I found one crucial flaw. Let us compare:
SX10 IS zoom: 28-560mm equivalent (WAY more than you would ever possibly need for a reef)
G10: 28mm-140mm equivalent (Juuuust short of what most of us use to shoot tanks on the long end, most Nikon and Canon DSLR Macro lenses are shooting between 155-160mm equivalent on average. 140mm will gets you pretty darn close.)
Panasonic DMC-LX3: 24-60mm equivalent (Way short. It only has 1/3 of the zoom of the G10 which is more or less "just right".) I think the G10 handles ISO noise marvelously for what it is. 100% Crops are going to be sprinkled with noise but...what can you really expect?
One advantage the Panasonic has over the Canon at first glance is that it has a "much faster" f/2-2.8 lens v.s. the G10's f/2.8-4.5 lens. Let us compare apples to apples for a moment. The Panasonic achieves f/2.8 wide open which is double the Canon @ f/4.5 wide open. However, The canon is giving up almost three times the zoom at those figures, where a reef photographer will likely much rather be anyway. In a reef environment I believe the Canon would outperform the Panasonic and I would be glad to take the Pepsi Challenge.
One more thing I noticed. The DPreviewers specifically cited what they believed that G9 had too many megapixels as is and wished the G10 would instead opt for high quality megapixels (i.e. better/larger sensor) instead of more megapixles. They booed the fact that the sensor remained the same size and the mega pixels increased. *Ohh I have to find a quote I made which foretold this like a prophecy, you just made me look very smart.* Now, the Panasonic actually has a smaller sensor than the G10. Not much smaller, but it is smaller. So the "negative reviews" towards the G10 as a giant leap forward from the G9 may have resonated even more harshly with the DMC-LX3 proposed as an update to the G9 as an upgrade.
The DMC-LX3 is a wonderful camera, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't go as far to recommend it for taking reef shots over a G10 though.
SX10 IS zoom: 28-560mm equivalent (WAY more than you would ever possibly need for a reef)
G10: 28mm-140mm equivalent (Juuuust short of what most of us use to shoot tanks on the long end, most Nikon and Canon DSLR Macro lenses are shooting between 155-160mm equivalent on average. 140mm will gets you pretty darn close.)
Panasonic DMC-LX3: 24-60mm equivalent (Way short. It only has 1/3 of the zoom of the G10 which is more or less "just right".) I think the G10 handles ISO noise marvelously for what it is. 100% Crops are going to be sprinkled with noise but...what can you really expect?
One advantage the Panasonic has over the Canon at first glance is that it has a "much faster" f/2-2.8 lens v.s. the G10's f/2.8-4.5 lens. Let us compare apples to apples for a moment. The Panasonic achieves f/2.8 wide open which is double the Canon @ f/4.5 wide open. However, The canon is giving up almost three times the zoom at those figures, where a reef photographer will likely much rather be anyway. In a reef environment I believe the Canon would outperform the Panasonic and I would be glad to take the Pepsi Challenge.
One more thing I noticed. The DPreviewers specifically cited what they believed that G9 had too many megapixels as is and wished the G10 would instead opt for high quality megapixels (i.e. better/larger sensor) instead of more megapixles. They booed the fact that the sensor remained the same size and the mega pixels increased. *Ohh I have to find a quote I made which foretold this like a prophecy, you just made me look very smart.* Now, the Panasonic actually has a smaller sensor than the G10. Not much smaller, but it is smaller. So the "negative reviews" towards the G10 as a giant leap forward from the G9 may have resonated even more harshly with the DMC-LX3 proposed as an update to the G9 as an upgrade.
The DMC-LX3 is a wonderful camera, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't go as far to recommend it for taking reef shots over a G10 though.
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TitusvileSurfer
New member
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MrSandman
Team RC
If a reef tank is the only place you plan to use this camera on, then some of your points on focal range may be valid. It all depends on the size tank you're shooting. For some tanks, 60mm may be fine. I have the Canon 100mm macro on a crop sensor camera and i know sometimes i wish i had a much shorter macro lens. Then again, these are high megapixel cameras. Compose the shot at a wide angle and crop it in post-processing if you want to get closer. With a low noise/high ISO camera like the Panasonic combined with its fast lens, the images should still come out very clean and possibly cleaner than the G10. I think the G10 handles noise quite well considering the number of pixels they packed into such a tiny sensor. However, Panasonic took a much smarter "less-is-more" approach at things and went with less "higher-quality" pixels which results in a much cleaner image at higher ISO's.
Again, the focal range can be overcome by some cropping, within reason. These are very high megapixel cameras we're talking about. If the reef tank is the only place one plans to use this 450.00 dollar camera on then the G10 may be better suited for focal range alone but that can be disputed depending on the situation.
The Panasonic does have a smaller sensor but not by much. Considering that the Panasonic is an 11MP camera and the G10 is a 15 MP camera, you'd hope that the G10 would have a MUCH larger sensor. The figure to pay attention here is pixel density. The lower the number the better. The Canon has a pixel density of 34. The Panasonic has a pixel density of 24. Almost 30%. That is why the Panasonic is such a good camera at High ISO. I'm not sure what the context of this thread is but if we're recommending a camera ONLY for reef tanks and focal length is your number 1 priority then the G10 is the one. However, the Panasonic has a faster lens, and produces higher quality images in more difficult conditions.
The Panasonic camera is actually a very very close relative to the Leica D-LUX 4. In fact many people claim that they are twins split at birth. Compare the specs. between those 2. they are practically identical. The Leica is an 850.00 camera and it is no joke.
Anyways, if you're looking for a camera to use ONLY on a reef tank then the G10 may suit your needs. The Panasonic may fit the bill as well depending on the situation but i'd be willing to bet i could produce nicer images with the Panasonic if i had both to compare. I'll take you up on that Pepsi challenge!
If you're looking for a camera to use on more than just a reef tank then the Panasonic is the one i would probably choose. A faster lens combined with a low noise sensor is a feature that every DSLR owner dreams about. Add to that, the Panasonic has a wider focal range at 24mm over 28mm for the Canon. Ideal for indoor use and panoramic photography. Just looking at the bigger picture here. I doubt that whoever buys this camera will be using it solely on a reef tank. In fact, i'd be willing to bet that it will only be used on the reef tank only 5-10% of the time. The other 90-95% will be used in conditions where the Panasonic will excel.
On a side note, i am a huge Canon fan. I've invested over 8k in Canon camera equipment alone and when the 5D MKII comes to the US i'll be well over that figure. I've also owned the Canon G5 (which i regret ever selling) and plan to buy an old G3 off my brother because i thought that was an awesome camera, and still do! But the G10 didn't do itself any justice by stretching that sensor to its limits. I've also been researching this to death since both of these cameras were brought into the limelight. I've wavered between the 2 of them for quite some time but since that review of the G10 came out, i'm now leaning towards the Panasonic once again. Megapixels are highly overrated.
In all honesty, outside of a reef tank for the typical camera user, it probably won't make much of a difference which camera you go with. However, if you ask a photography nut what are the top 2 features they would look for in a point and shoot camera they would most likely say: Low noise/high ISO performance and a fast lens. Focal range would probably be 3rd or 4th on that list. JMO.
PS - The Panasonic is a much smaller camera.
PPS - The Panasonic can fire off 2.5 shots per second and the Canon can only do .7.
PPPS - The Panasonic also shoots HD video at 720P. The Canon does not.
TitusvileSurfer
New member
I could not find the quote I was looking for from months past, but this much more recent analogy will also work.
I only found this quote because it was in the sister thread of this one. I wish I could find what I was really looking for though...
An excerpt form DPreview's Canon G10 Review:
"The things we criticized the G9 for (the unneeded increase in resolution, and the slow-ish lens) have not been addressed. Instead Canon has increased the resolution for the sensor even more, to 14.7 megapixels."
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t5Nitro
New member
Ya, I'm with beerguy. The controls of the G10 wins me over. :lol: I've played around on one, and the macro mode on that camera is really good. You can get really close with being in focus yet. Ultrasonic glass is cool. Spot for a flash if needed ever. RAW. High MP if you like to PS and print large. List goes on.
TitusvileSurfer
New member
Mr. Sandman, I found a P6000, G10, LX3 review I thought you might like on a Nikon blog. It celebrates both the Canon and Panasonic and I just thought of you while I read it. Many of our combined arguments are included and the two cameras basically tie in the end. The Nikon, ironically, was not so lucky.
EDIT: forgot the link
http://www.bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm
EDIT: forgot the link
http://www.bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm
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