TN - Losing my SPS. Please help!

[Oldtimer]

For some background on the recent events and details of my system, please see the following thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1924125

Long story short, my SPS is taking a turn for the worst. I'm pretty well convinced it's a low nutrient condition, but getting my acro's to stop losing tissue is a struggle. Most are faded to pastel like colors. Polyp extension is lacking in all of them (acros, monti's, birdsnest, Pocillopora). I've already fragged about 8 corals in the last 24 hours and some of them are holding on while others are continuing to lose tissue. I've been adding Brightwell Zooplanktos-L and Coral Aminos at the recommended amount once/day and doubled the amount of Rod's food I feed daily from about a dime size once/day to a bit larger than a nickel size chunk twice/day for the last few days. PO4 still shows as zero on both Tropic Marin and D&D kits. All other parameters are in check (See above thread for details).

I cut the photoperiod on my MH's a few hours over the last couple days, but decided to bring it back to 9 hours today but with 2 layers of screen over the tank. This has really reduced the intensity. I also turned off my skimmer a few hours ago. Considering turning the pump off which supplies my GAC reactor. I have a Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter on the way as well.

I cringe every day I look at this tank. TN got to 2 of my larger colonies today and I had to start fragging one of them. The other just has a small spot at the base which is starting to lose tissue.

I see no red bugs, flatworms, etc. I dipped one (in Revive) that had suffered quite a bit of tissue loss and all I saw come off the rock to which it was attached was a tiny star fish (one -forget the name but they are supposedly harmless and I've had a few of them in the tank for a while) and a few tiny snails. No red bugs, worms or other unknowns.

I snapped one quick pic with my BB of the larger colony that I had to frag (attached). This one lost the missing tissue within the last 24 hours. It's not the greatest pic, but you can see it absent from the base and along a few branches. I'm holding the coral sideways in the pic and the base is in the upper right corner of the pic (coral actually looks upside down in the pic).

Looking for pointers here. I currently feel like I'm doing just about everything I can do. I'm hesitant to do a WC since I am trying to get nutrients in the system. Last WC was just under 3 weeks ago. I don't want to shock the system, but I'm hoping P04 starts to climb a little. The Hanna meter should give me a better handle on the actual number.

Appreciate some input. Thanks,

Andy

 

[Oldtimer]

Any thoughts? Everyone I've spoken with is lost and so am I! I'd expect more polyp extension and subsiding of the TN by now with my heavy feeding and reduction of light. Hanna meter will be here tomorrow so I can get a better handle on true P04 reading.

 

[Oldtimer]

Got home today still see another prized colony with STN on the base and a larger frag with tissue loss on the tips. Phosphates and nitrates are reading zero again today. It's been suggested to add some tap water to my tank believe it or not. Any input on this or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to just let it all go however it decides to without further intervention. It's frankly too frustrating and I'm losing a lot of sleep over it. I had the skimmer off last night so it was off for around 12 hours today. It pulled more junk out after I turned it on this morning. I just shut it off again.


... just looking at my tank again. I noticed that even the few small Aptasia in my tank are either closed up or gone! Something is just not right here. My zoos have seemed stress lately as well. Seems to me like a water quality issue, but would zero phosphate levels really do this? What am I missing?

 

[M007]

What else are you testing? SG, stray electrical, etc.... I don't think low nutrients is your problem.

 

[mayjong]

agreed^

 

[Oldtimer]

Depending on which device you trust, specific gravity is as follows...

35ppt per Refractometer
1.023-1.024 per lab grade glass hydrometer
53.0 ms per conductivity meter (or 35ppt)

Stray voltage is around 1V AC or less per my multimeter and of course zero with when I connect my ground probe. There is also no current flow (with ground probe disconnected).

I'm currently in the process changing out 15% of the water with a roughly 50/50 blend of Tropic Marin Pro and Red Sea Coral Pro Salt and RO/DI water with zero TDS.

 

[jjoos99]

I have almost the exact same thing going on in my tank right now. I have 2 acros loosing tissue on the tips and several others on the base. All my monti look terrible. almost total color loose. i dont know my po4 but I have now algae growth at all, even my cheato doesnt grow. I have been running phos media so I am thinking the same thing you are, too low levels. i had thought that things were getting better, I changed my phos media and I believe things are getting worst again. did you stop your gfo? I shut mine down tonight and might take your lead and shut down my skimmer for now. Lets us know if things get better. I will do the same. As I am doing this I just realized that my orange cap has bleached out almost totally within the last couple of days. Just might be the gfo
jeff

 

[Oldtimer]

I'm not running any gfo. I'm starting to be convinced that there is some sort of contaminant in the system. I just finished the W/C and changed out the carbon for some new BRS 0.8 Rox (same as I always use). I'm making more R/O for another W/C tomorrow. I'm not waiting around any more despite that I don't have the Hanna ULR meter yet to confirm just how low my P04 is. My gut says something else is going on. I can't believe the low P04 is causing even Aptasia to close up and die - that is what put me onto this a couple hours ago. Something is just not right.

I do have a lot of the same symptoms you're describing, but circumstances could be different. Are you running carbon? Recent water changes? Heavy feeding or very little food?

 

[Oldtimer]

About your comment relative to the monti. My digis have looked bad. A little bleached, but very little polyp extension. A green cap completely bleached, but oddly my red and purple caps are growing and don't look all that bad. Really odd is that my true superman monti is probably the best looking piece in the tank. My acro's have been hit hardest along with a Pocillopora. Even my favia has been looking dull and my zoos have been closed up a lot.

 

[jjoos99]

My monti's have been the hardest hit. I have only lost one acro but the stn is slowly working its way up the stalk of several of my other acros. they have looked bad all summer, but I have also ran gfo continuously changing out once every month or so. Just one cup of gfo per change. i dont even really get any bubble algae growth either which makes me want to start to believe I have too clean of a system.
jeff

 

[Oldtimer]

How often are you feeding and what's your tank size and bioload like?

I never intended to run gfo unless I had an issue with phosphates. Since I've always been getting <0.01 mg/l with the Tropicmarin kit, I never worried about it. Now the D&D kit says I have zero, but it's extremely subjective since the color differences are very hard to discern at the low levels. The Hanna meter is digital so no interpretation is required. I'm really looking forward to trying that tomorrow. The scale is 0 to 0.2 mg/l so readings should be much more accurate now.

If your SPS has been looking that poor all summer, it may very well be low nutrient. Mine is just coming on too strong too fast so I have to believe it's a contaminant issue.

FWIW I don't have much algae growth either whether the nuisance type or the chaeto in the fuge. The chaeto grows pretty slowly, but then again I've only had a few fish and a couple dozen corals in 450 gallons of water with minimal feeding so it's really not surprising.

 

[Oldtimer]

Double post

 

[madmike]

whats your alk at? I find my montis show signs of drifting alk by losing color first.

 

[jjoos99]

any changes old timer? since I cut my gfo out my acros have stopped the stn. I hope the montis and acros will recover since I cut the gfo.
Jeff

 

[longiotti]

I did not read the other thread but I just wanted to ask did you check copper?

 

[Oldtimer]

Never checked copper, but can't imagine where that would be coming from... pipes?? I suspect it would be stripped out by my RO/DI and I know my membrane is good because it's only produced 500 or so gallons since I last replaced it and I'm currently seeing between 0 and 2 TDS into the DI canisters. I do have an old Salifert copper kit that I could use.

My tank is actually showing positive signs. An encrusting monti has looked dead with hardly any polyps visible over the last several days. Today, it is fully covered in polyps. My acans look like they grew - they must have been retracted quite a bit recently. While a couple acros still show some STN, I'm going to frag them and hope for the best. Overall things are looking up. About to check my parameters and possibly change some more water.

 

[jjoos99]

did you ever get to check your po4 with the hanna meter? The more I compare things that have happened in my tank i feel more and more my problem is with the gfo.
jeff

 

[Oldtimer]

yep, 53 ppb P yesterday and 24 ppb today. That equates to 0.16 mg/l or ppm P04 and 0.07 mg/l respectively. So, it was a little high although not really that bad yesterday and now after last nights water change, it's showing pretty much exactly where I'd like to see it.

I'm starting to believe these Tropicmarin and D&D kits are just too tough to read accurately in the low range.

 

[longiotti]

Never checked copper, but can't imagine where that would be coming from... pipes?? I suspect it would be stripped out by my RO/DI and I know my membrane is good because it's only produced 500 or so gallons since I last replaced it and I'm currently seeing between 0 and 2 TDS into the DI canisters. I do have an old Salifert copper kit that I could use.

My tank is actually showing positive signs. An encrusting monti has looked dead with hardly any polyps visible over the last several days. Today, it is fully covered in polyps. My acans look like they grew - they must have been retracted quite a bit recently. While a couple acros still show some STN, I'm going to frag them and hope for the best. Overall things are looking up. About to check my parameters and possibly change some more water.

I learned that just because you can't think of where something would be coming from doesn't mean it can't be there.
if you have kids maybe a penny got dropped in?
One of my electrical cords was submered and had a small hole in it through electrolysis it desolved the wire even though it was only submerged for about 10 min. funny thing. It is always the last thing you check :hmm5:

 

[Oldtimer]

I hear you. My 2yr old son can't access the room because the door is closed at all times and he can't open it. Even if he could, there's no way he could get anything into the water since the sump has a lid covering all inlet paths and it fits such that he could not open it. The frag tank, fuge and display tank are much too high for him to reach.

I highly doubt I dropped change into it because I never carry it to begin with. I suppose it's possible that I dropped something into the tank and then it got burried. Not quite sure what this could be though since I never have anything sitting on the edge of the tank other than my glass scraper which is plastic and would float if it did fall in. I suppose one of the metal clips that online stores use to seal bags could have flew off when I was opening a bag at one point, but don't recall anything like that occuring.

At the same time I started these water changes a couple days ago I unplugged the Tunze wavebox since I noted that I could see as much as 2V AC when I probed next to it. I still think this is nothing especially since I don't see any current draw, but noted.

Nothing is rusting above the tank so that's out too. I'm used to critical thinking based on my form of work, but this is enough to give you a serious headache. I'm determined to figure out the source because if it's still in there, I could very well have more issues down the road.

I'll take a look at all electrical cords just in case. Thanks for the suggestions.