to any one thats had Pinched Mantle

crap i think i have PM on two of my croceas. not sure where i got it but a buddy of mine sold me a crocea that has been fine no PM. now i need to read a TON of threads and figure out what to do.

if someone wants to give me a summary to save tiem that would be great and don't be surprised if i ask a lot of you guys ?'s

they have been looking "funny" or curly for about 2-3 weeks. i thought it was irritation due to some slime that the new crocea was putting out when building threads. guess not now.

hope i can save them all
Lunchbucket
 
Snprhed said:
Barry from clams direct had a lab verify the actual cause (Protozoan infection) and the suggested treatment is metronadazole (sp).
Click to expand...

did the Metro treatment for almost 6 months doesn't work.


im looking for people that have had it.and detailed accounts of what they did please.
 
Have you tried putting them in a QT tank for a couple months? With no medication of course. And then FD a couple times for an hour or so. See if that works.
 
they were in my qt when i was doing the metro treatment.the main tank was clamless for about 4 months then i bought 2 new clams for the main tank,and the other clams were still in qt,and the new clams pinched so thats why im tring the new treatment in the main tank ,to kill it wherever its hiding in there.also i did FWD's every week with the metro
 
Since the metro did not work. Try to QT w/o no metro. Use regular talk water in the QT. And when you FWD how long do you do it for? I did it once for an hour and half.
 
I had three older clams and two new clams. The two new clams were the protozoan infested ones. Those two died. The three old ones made it. I only FWD them ONCE for hr and half. And then after that I didn't have to FWD for a really long time..I say at least 6-8 weeks. I think the long FWD is one reason why my clams were rid of the infection.

If you get the chance read my old thread. I had step by step of what I did to get rid of them.
 
isseym328
thanks i have read those post's and every other one that i can find on anyother forum. just getting a little POed about this PM thing. nothing seem's to work for me,but i will not give up!!
 
FWD dip them for longer period of time. If you think hr and half is too long try 45 mins to an hour. I don't think 10-30 mins is enough to get rid of the protozoans. They're tough little suckers but you already know that. :D
 
I haven't really read up on PM disease yet, but after doing a little reading tonight realize that my clams have it. Dangit!

I do know a little about protozoans though. They are tough, but mostly because they are able to secrete a protective coat and shrink into a round cyst in response to environmental changes. It sounds like these FW dips you are doing is causing them to respond in this manner. I think that FW dips would only be a temporary solution. They may cure the active infection, but as long as the Protozoans can form a protective cyst, they will be back. Cysts can be dormant for a long time, much longer than you would ever want to dip your clams!

Metronidazole is usually a good drug for protozoans because it is relatively safe for animals. In its primary form it is inert, but anerobic bugs such as protozoans convert it to a form that binds to DNA, killing the protozoan but leaving the animal alone.

I don't see how praziquantel would treat a protozoan infection. From what I know it is useful in treating certain infections such as worms such as schistosomas and cestodes, but these are very different creatures than protozoans.

There are more potent drugs than Metronidazole that may be effective. Tinidazole is more effective and is used in humans with Giardia and Amoeba infections (both are protozoans). I have no idea how to dose an aquarium, I'm just throwing an alternative out there. Tinidazole is very effective for humans though.

Anyway, I guess I'm about to go do a FW dip for the time being. It'll probably be back, but I think that's about all to do at the time being. I'll check later and see if any other drugs would work on protozoan infections. Maybe repeated 15 min FW dips over the course of a day would work? Probably not, just another idea...

Anyway, good luck with your own treatments. Hopefully we can find something that will work!

Matt
 
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Thanks Matt

The Metro treatment has worked for some but not me.
As for the FWD's, I wouldn't do more then one every other day because that would likely kill the clam from stress.

I would like to know a little more about the drug's that you mentioned.but you have to remember that these clams are invertebrates and house symbiotic algae(dinoflagellates)that need to be safe in the treatment as well
 
The symbiotic algae is definitely an important consideration. However, Metronidazole works because anaerobic bacteria (and protozoans) have specific metabolisms that animals and algae don't have, which is why it works for some people.

I read a little bit about Tinidazole and think it's potentially an option that could be experimented with, but it probably has too many drawbacks to be useful. It is more effective than metronidazole in killing protozoans, but you would have to use it in quarantine due to the fact that it could kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank. Of course no one to my knowledge has actually tried Tinidazole on aquarium species so there's no telling what would actually happen; like you said, dinoflagellates are very important, and it would suck if it were toxic to them. My gut feeling though is that it would simply work the same as metronidazole and wouldn't necessarily cure the infection, would be harder to get, and much more expensive. Probably not worth it.

Well, I guess I'll try the metro tx. hopefully it will work for me. If anyone else has any ideas, please share them!

Matt
 
Last edited:
Matt if you go back thru this thread there is a link to Reef frontiers and that is where i hear of and started to use Prazipro,just fyi.

Chris
 
Thanks, I got done reading the link, but there is some bad information in it. Praziquantel kills worms, in particular roundworm and fluke infections. Flukes are worms, not protozoans as someone said. Anyway, Praziquantel is a very broad spectrum worm killer so I would be worried about using it in my tank and killing off my entire population of beneficial worms.

I'm not saying Prazi-pro won't work, but I would be surprised if it did. Praziquantel isn't used in people for protozoan infections. Good luck with your own treatment though, hopefully it will work!

Matt
 
pacman100 - please come over to reef frontiers and help out. i'm sure your idea w/ the tinidazole would be a great idea to throw in there

Lunchbucket
 
Pacman100 said:
Thanks, I got done reading the link, but there is some bad information in it. Praziquantel kills worms, in particular roundworm and fluke infections. Flukes are worms, not protozoans as someone said. Anyway, Praziquantel is a very broad spectrum worm killer so I would be worried about using it in my tank and killing off my entire population of beneficial worms.

I'm not saying Prazi-pro won't work, but I would be surprised if it did. Praziquantel isn't used in people for protozoan infections. Good luck with your own treatment though, hopefully it will work!

Matt
Click to expand...

so far it has done a lot more then the 6 months of Metro treatment,and I haven't noticed any die off of my worm population
 
I've also used the prazi treatment and showed immediate improvement in both my 1-2 inch croaceas. I experienced no other dieoff and was done after one treatment.
 
PS: Sorry it took me so long to chime in here guys. If any of you have any questions regarding my experience with prazipro go ahead and ask em and let me know you did so I can answer ;) .

It is confirmed to be a protazoan infection just for everyones information.
 
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