Toadstool dying? Causing or caused by Phosphates?

90GalFOWLR

New member
I'll start off by saying that all of my parameters are good except apparently phosphates. I dont have them on hand but I know nitrates are 0, temp is 78, salinity 1.026. They are constant and good

I have a toadstool that up to a month ago was awesome. it was 10"-12" across, the tentacle type things on it were about 3/4" long the stem on it was probobly 4" long. It was very nice and healthy. It was for approx 6 months too. Its not a fresh addition.

Then one day it didnt open very well at all. Maybe 3"-4" across and the tentacles were about 1/8" extended and a dark ugly color. This thing is ugly now and would be out of my tank if it werent for the hope of it returning to its former glory.

At the same time (within the same week) I developed a hair algea and cyano problem. It got pretty bad. My return spray bar was COVERED with hair, my heater, rocks, everything covered in about a 1" hair. The cyano aspect isnt as bad as the hair.

I used to use a product in my reactor (forget the brand) and had a pump on the reactor that was kind of under sized. After 2 or 3 weeks of this mess being out of control I upgraded the pump on the reactor back to the correct size and bought new stuff. Phosloc. This stuff does appear to be working because allthough everything is covered still... I wouldnt classify it as out of control. it is "contained".

I scrubbed stuff, scrapped others, siphoned, did my water changes and its not spreading but the stuff I couldnt physically remove is still there (which includes nearly all on the rock)

Phosphate test come up negative... Im going to say I dont have them because we all know tests suck, and the algea is consuming the phosphates and thats why they dont show up.

My question is this... Happening within days of each other for no apparent reason I assume one is caused by the other. I dont have many, but other corals are fine. Did the toadstool die (or begin to) and give off something cause such bad phosphates.

If the toadstool hasnt completely opened or even 1/2 opened in over a month should I cut my losses and remove it?

How do I remove a toadstool that is attatched to a $40 rock?
 
First i would leave the toadstool it will probably come back they are really tough. you need to take a water sample to a lfs and get your exact levels. I doubt your nitrates and phosphates are zero if you are having these problems. also are you using a rodi? If you are what is the tds reading? What kind of lighting are you running and how old are the bulbs?
 
X2 - Leave it and get your water checked. My P04 has hovered around .24 for months without negatively impacting my TS. If it's been going on for a month, seems like something is out of sorts - have LFS test your water.
 
PO4 isn't the problem here

PO4 isn't the problem here

PO4 adsorber is the problem.

Sarcophyton may react badly to phosphate removers- especially white colored (aluminum based) PO4 adsorbers. Remove PO4 adsorber, do a water change and make sure alkalinity is up to snuff.

The coral will recover.

Convert to reef aquarium ASAP :)
 
PO4 adsorber is the problem.

Sarcophyton may react badly to phosphate removers- especially white colored (aluminum based) PO4 adsorbers. Remove PO4 adsorber, do a water change and make sure alkalinity is up to snuff.

The coral will recover.

Convert to reef aquarium ASAP :)

Are you saying PhosGuard is bad then? I'm using it and so far my TS is quite happy.
 
For what it's worth, direct from SeaChem's website:

A: In recent years, there has been speculation that aluminum oxide based phosphate removers like PhosGuardâ„¢ release aluminum into the water and subsequently damage corals. The evidence to support this claim was largely anecdotal.

So, through a series of controlled experiments in both freshwater and saltwater, we intended to address both the question of aluminum solubility and aluminum toxicity. The results of these experiments show that under reef conditions (pH near 8) there is no detectable soluble aluminum released from alumina. Under conditions of low pH and high dosage levels, soluble aluminum can be released from alumina; at three times the label dosage rate, we detected 0.2 mg/L aluminum at a pH of 5.3.

Additionally, aluminum oxide is not easily absorbed into the cell to cause negative reactions. Even at three times the dose of PhosGuardâ„¢, soft-bodied corals such as Sarcophyton remain unaffected.

For the full report on this study, click here.
http://www.seachem.com/support/AluminumSolubilityToxicity.pdf
 
I'm trying to figure out your time line and potential "trigger". Did you start using PO4 absorber after your TS started looking bad? Or were you using it the whole 6+ months it was looking fine?
 
nuthin' like taking a salesperson's word as gospel truth, is there?

I prefer to go by Randy Holmes-Farley's experiment in the article I linked to.
It even shows a picture of a leather "wilting" in the presence of aluminum oxide. I like the added benefit of knowing Randy is a scientist and he doesn't sell aluminum oxide.

Personally, I like to use aluminum oxide based adsorbers to rid aquariums of Xenia epidemics :)

I've never had a Sarco react negatively to high phosphates.
I have had Sarcophyton react negatively to aluminum oxide PO4 adsorbers.

Another thing to watch when using PO4 adsobers is alkalinity. PO4 adsorbers deplete alkalinity- and softies will often droop if alk dips too low.

FOWLR's aren't the best of growing environments for corals- even tuff ones like Sarcos. That's why I suggest converting to reef ASAP. It's cheaper to do things right the first time. Get the proper lights, a skimmer etc etc.

Good luck!
 
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nuthin' like taking a salesperson's word as gospel truth, is there?

I seemed to see some Ph.D credentials on that study from Seachem, and I also seem to remember some pretty smart people thinking the world was flat and the only way to cycle a tank was with live fish, but I can see where you're going with this so I'll just bow out.
 
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