tomato clown

phishy2

New member
i will be moving in about 3-4months i would like to have a mated pair of tomato clowns including my current tomato clown... would it be possible in the process of the move to get another tomato clown and then put them in the tank at the same time after the tank has been setup and cycled so that they are both in a fresh home? i will change the rockwork and such that the current clown might not recognize it as its tank, becuase i have read that you really should introduce them at the same time.

tank size is 37 gallons, normal parameters, tank mates include midas blenny, pepperment shrimp, brittlestar...

thanks
 
i am saying that i would like a pair of tomato clowns, only two, but one of which i already have in my tank.
 
Yeah you could have a pair. I have one big female tomato right now. I am going to pair her up soon. When you move don't get the third tomato just yet. Let the female acclimate and get situated so she feels dominate again. Than get the juvi tomato and they should pair up.
 
i am a little confused, how am i sure that the tomato clown i have is female? ive had it about 4months, it is still pretty small (images can be seen in my photo gallary), second i dont plan on getting a third tomato, the one that i get will be the second tomato... if it were the case that the current fish is suppose to feel dominant in the tank why couldnt i just get a juvi tomato now? i always thought you were suppose to introduce clowns at the same time to pair them... maybe its different if you already have one of them?
 
i have only had my tomato for 4 or so months, would that mean it is not physically mature 12-24 months? im not sure how long they grow them for before selling them.... also i never seem to see smaller tomato clowns at the lfs mostly same size or bigger, and usually always in seperate tanks, wouldnt that mean they are all going to turn out female and not be compatable?
 
If the tomato came from a community tank and was a true juvie when you bought it then it is probably still a juvie on it's way to becoming a male. You should be able to safely add another fish either larger or smaller.
 
At petco, they sell like tons of juvi clownfish, mainly percs, maroons and tomatos but maybe thats only at my petco. I only buy there when I have too.
 
When a clown is left alone for a certain period of time, it will start the change to female. I would say you have a female if it has been alone for 4 months. I don't know the exact time period and I doubt there is a certain time period but 4 months is a good amount of time so I think you're good....
 
I don't know the exact time period and I doubt there is a certain time period but 4 months is a good amount of time so I think you're good....

I don't know why you chose that number but what I have seen suggests that it takes 5.9 months for a juvenile to become a full fledged male capable of breeding. I have not seen any data for the time it takes for a male to become a full fledged female. If we assume that it takes at least half as long as the juvie --> male transformation that leaves a minimum of nine months of wiggle room for known juvie to female transformation. Of course these data are for fish in a natural environment with other fish. I would suspect that without the outside pressure of other adults it could take longer for a fish to become an adult.
 
-there is a picture of my tomato clown in my gallery

-i dont shop at petco unless its an absolute emergency, i never buy fish there though, ive had tons of problems when buying there fish....

-as i was saying i shop at a few lfs, and when ever they have tomato clowns they are all in seperate tanks... would it be best to purchase a bigger tomato? a smaller tomato? or one the same size...

my tank is only a 37 gal so i would rather buy a same size or smaller. my clown fish hasnt grown too much since i have had it (with a daily feeding to saturation) from what i have read on the other sticky is that it takes 12-24months to fully mature to female... i have had the fish for a little over 4months, and have no idea how long they actually grow the fish before selling them in stores.... i would assume not more then a few months.

another question would be, will a pair of clown fish be more aggressive to the tank mates than a single one? my current clown isnt too aggressive.
 
If you can find one that is significantly larger I'd get that. Otherwise let yours grow out and then find a smaller one as semi said.
 
Dantodd, yes it might take that long to fully change but once it starts (after a couple of months) its not like it can be halfway done changing female and then go back. Thats why I was assuming 4 months is a safe time peroid.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7672674#post7672674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ChunksInClemson
Dantodd, yes it might take that long to fully change but once it starts (after a couple of months) its not like it can be halfway done changing female and then go back. Thats why I was assuming 4 months is a safe time peroid.

Chunks, say if the Tomato clown started to grow and was on its way to becoming a female and then you introduced a larger Tomato, it would actually go back to a male to prevent conflict. If a smaller clown was introduced, the turning female would still become the female and the smaller clown would become a male. If you introduced a same size clownfish, most likely the one thats already been there the longest (the turning female) would most likely become the female.

This is a strategy that may have evolved to prevent conflict between group members, because it ensures that subordinates do not become a threat to their dominants.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7674330#post7674330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
Chunks, say if the Tomato clown started to grow and was on its way to becoming a female and then you introduced a larger Tomato, it would actually go back to a male to prevent conflict.

Interesting information. I have never seen anything that indicates that a clown can "go back" to an earlier sexual identity. Do you have any references?

Kevin
 
I was trying to find any info on the web concerning the sex-change habits of clownfish. Boy, did the movie "Finding Nemo" ever create a stir.

Most of the info I found ascribed the juvenile clowns as male, although a few articles correctly indicated that the juveniles have undeveloped sex organs of both sexes (ie, they are neuter).

A few articles indicated that sex change is "terminal" - ie, there is no "going back."

This article in Reefkeeping Magazine offers the most concise and non-dumbed-down-for-the-movie-going-public description:

All clownfish females are the result of males undergoing a sex change, or protandric hermaphrodites as they are called. In most host anemones a small harem of clownfish are present. Generally, this harem contains a single female, a single male, and several juvenile fish. The female is the most dominant member of the harem, and her constant attention to the harem ensures that the male does not develop into a female. When the female becomes absent from the harem, the male will assume the role of the female. Once a female, the fish cannot revert back to male. Both the male and female inhibit the sex change tendency of the juveniles. This phenomenon is often referred to as "psychophysical castration." When the male undergoes sex change and becomes a female, the juveniles will battle to determine who the most dominant member is. The winner will then grow testicles and become a male. These sex changes will occur in less than one month. In some instances, immigrating fish may disrupt this natural hierarchy. Some species (A. clarkii) have been noted to roam over 500 feet in search of another host anemone. In these cases, males and females may get thrown out of their host anemone by a stronger individual that left their original host anemone. Generally, these migrating specimens were displaced from their previous anemone in similar fashion. Juveniles will also migrate to nearby host anemones in hopes of moving up in the pecking order. In rare situations, juveniles may skip over the step of becoming a male, instead maturing from a juvenile into a female. This may occur if a male and female are not present in the host anemone, or a roaming juvenile is more dominant than the present female and male.

FWIW,
Kevin
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7674996#post7674996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anemone
Interesting information. I have never seen anything that indicates that a clown can "go back" to an earlier sexual identity. Do you have any references?

Kevin

I have found articles indicating that sex changes are irreversible but I found nothing to prove that when a clownfish is in the middle of a sex change it can go back. I am sorry if I was wrong. Someone told me that but no I have my doubts. After reading the below paragraph, I think if a bigger clownfish (female) came along and encountered a changing female (male becoming female) I think they would fight to the death and the winnger would most likely be the bigger female. So I guess I was told wrong. Always something to learn. ;)

Clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites, meaning they are hatched as sexually immature fry. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12â€"œ24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. A group of clownfish is always built into a hierarchy of this type, with the female (the largest and most aggressive) at the top. The change from juvenile to male, and male to female is irreversible. If the female should die or be removed from the group, the most dominant male then changes into a female, and the rest of the males move up a rank on the hierarchy.
 
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