Too clean? or to much Light? to little Flow?

Reefmedic79

Reefmedic79

Life and Reef Saver
Greetings all, I'm having some trouble with a couple of SPS frags and I'm looking for a little help.

Details= Approx. 7 years in the hobby, started back in 2001 , with a 3 year dry period ending last June. Previous experience with a 125 Gallon full reef, mostly softey and LPS with a couple montiporas and acros under PC's flourescents.

Current Set-up
5 month old 40G breeder, 20L sump, 10g Fuge with the intention of being an SPS tank.
Reef Octopus NW-110 skimmer,
Ehiem 1260 return spit off to feed the fuge and lower the amount to the tank as I have only a 350GPH Glass holes overflow.
40+ lbs of LR and 40+lbs of sand.
1 Vortech MP10es for internal flow
Total flow in the tank approx. 1900-2000gph

Lighting = 12 Cree Neutral White, 12 Cree Royal Blue, and 12 Cree Blue LED's retrofited for my canopy. Blues on for 12 hours and the whites on for 8 total ramped up to only 10% power.
I get about 85PAR on the bottom of the tank and about 120-130PAR at the highest peak of my rock.

Water is RO/DI 0 TDS mixed with Red Sea Salt 10% water changes bi-weekly

Parameters = 0 Ammo, Nitrite and Nitrate, pH 8.1, Alk. about 8 dKH, temp is stable at 79F. Salinity maintained with ATO at 35ppm.

Haven't started checking my Mag or Calcium yet due to the small population in the tank and to the fairly high levels Red Sea advertises with thier salt. So I don't think this is an issue at this time.

Haven't tested for phosphates as I have no algae issues, and any algea growth I do have is well controlled by CUC.

I have a fairly large CUC being fed sumplemental food 1-2 times a week. No fish in the tank yet, haven't found what I want to start with yet.

Now the question.

I recieved a small 1" square frag of an encrusting monitpora (in tank about 3 months) that seemed to do great for the first couple months, but within the last couple weeks has started losing some tissue and has dramatically lost it's color on what is left of the frag. I also have a decent sized pocilopora (sp?) frag (1 month) that is beginning to show some signs of tissue loss. I'm not thinking RTN, due to how slow things seem to be progressing.

Initially I was thinking it was too much light to fast as I did not get a PAR meter until a couple weeks ago and found out that at 25% my LED's where getting about 150PAR at the bottom of the tank which is where these frags have been since introducing them to the tank. They where under MH lighting prior to my tank. When I first noticed issues with the monti, I immediately started turning the lighting down assuming that was the issue considering my parameters being good.

Could be too little flow, they are not recieving the direct flow of my vortech. I'm considering getting a second MP10es, it just hasn't been in the books at this time. Do you guys think I should put them in more direct flow?

Lastly, I've never been lucky enough to have a 0 nitrate tank. Is it' possible things are too clean? I just startiung feeding the tank with coral sized foods, i.e. phyto and cyclopeeze, to start. I'm aware that SPS thrive in pristine conditions, but I also understand they need to have some nutrients in the water to feed, outside of what the photosynthesis provides.

Any help would be great, and thanks in advance to all that assist.
 
Have you checked for montipora eating nudibranchs? They attack montis and pocilopora. If the tissue loss is extending from the base, good chance they are in your tank.
 
I'm familiar with the nudibranchs, didn't know they went after pocillapora though. I've considered it being a possibility, and haven't found any looking for them at night and for thier eggs on the underside of the Frags. I think I've ruled them out for two reasons. The Montipora was doing fine for the first 2 months, and this is a pretty small frag thinking it wouldn't take long for the nudi to eat it all.

Sent from my future self.
 
geldof said:
Have you checked for montipora eating nudibranchs? They attack montis and pocilopora. If the tissue loss is extending from the base, good chance they are in your tank.
Click to expand...

Can you show us where you got information that monti eating nudis eat poccilipora? Thats the first time im hearing that.

Reefmedic, are you running any reactors with GFO or carbon?
 
Is the PAR level that you mentioned with the LED's only ramped up to 10% like you currently mentioned or is that at full blast? The reason why I ask is 36 LED's does not sound like enough to cover a 125 gallon SPS reef unless they are strategically placed right over the corals. Most of what I have seen mentioned is around 48-56 3-5 watt CREE LED's for a 90 gallon (I have a 90 gallon which is why I say this) with 60 degree optics. Granted, the 125 isn't as deep as a 90 so you may not need the 60 degree on the 125 gallon. It seems that a 125 gallon may need a little more LED's than that. What angle optics do you have on the fixture? A browning out in color may also be an indication of too low of light. If it is turning pale and not browning, it might be too much light and/or too little nutrients. I'm just throwing out an option for you to consider.
Another option could be as you stated that your tank is too clean as SPS need some nitrate and phosphates. As blackthunda mentioned, you may want to stop using GFO or carbon if you are currently using them as they could be a part of the problem with it stripping all the nutrients.
 
@blackthunda, No GFO or carbon haven't had a need for it, yet.

@dunc101, PAR of 85 on the sand at 10% without optics, this is for a 40B. Coral is browning then receding.
Not paling out.
 
Tagging along. Almost same exact set up but different lighting, and different type of coral. mine is not opening up (extending polyps). Its a little creepy how our tanks are so closely set up the same. light is a little higher on mine but still, great minds think alike. (set up wise)
 
Well if the corals are browning, I would try increasing the light % to maybe 50%-60% for a few days and see what happens personally. This may not be you problem but its worth a shot. Really, Im just looking to gather some LED stats for personal reference.

Reason I say that is I am running LED's aswell, EverGrow A4's, 10.5 inches from the water line. Running at 100%blues with UV and 80% whites (These are Bridgelux 3watt LEDs mind you). SPS range from ~18 inches to ~6 inches below the waterline. I have a Candle light acro that browned out on me and started to pale at the tips and STN at the base. I raised the piece to about 12inches from the waterline directly under the LEDs and it is now starting to get its color back after 4 weeks.

Aside from that I would also toss some GAC in a bag and place it in the sump.
 
what if there is no color loss or browning? just polyps not showing? not trying to steal anything just want to pick your brain without starting a new thread. sorry reefmedic. can I just pm you these questions acronic? to give you more insight on levels and such.
 
I have setup a 30 gallon rimless to keep mainly SPS about 3 months ago and I am having similar issues. I have absolutely no coralline algae growth at all under 14K 250w MH. I'm starting to wonder if its the water in FL? I am on city water, not well water and I'm using a 4 stage RO/Di filter = 0 tds. All water params are in check with 0 PO4.

Are you on utility water? Could this even be an issue? Just a thought...
 
Dont think that could be it. Maybe the salt mix being used or the schedule that the maintanance is being done.
 
I used Red Sea Coral Pro, but recently (5-6 months) changed to Reef Crystals. Haven't noticed a real difference.
 
Don't think it could be the utility water, Have lived here all my life and haven't had problems like this with other tanks. The only major difference between this set-up and my past set-ups have been the lighting.

Tilo and echo, how old are your tanks? And tilo, what type of coral/s is it?

I believe that another issue may be the age of my tank, regardless of how pristine my parameters are, it is still a relatively new tank, and these parameters may be in flux more than what my water testing is showing perhaps, or there are untested parameters that we as a hobby don't think about that may be causing the issue.

Perhaps some SPS truly need a well established tank to do well.
 
Yeah, i didnt think it could be the water. Ive just been scratching my head trying to think of any possible answer. My tank is going on 4 months. I only have a few SPS right now. How old is your tank again? Don't know if this matters, but my DT is bare bottom. Sump/fuge has fine sand.
 
mine is reaching 3 months and is also bare bottom. the coral I was referring to is a tyree sunset monti. So I kind of think that it could be the age that makes a difference. Probably still doing a little flux here and there. I check my perameters twice a week as I take it to the LFS to test. Only thing that is off is Ph and thats at 7.8. all others are perfect. have to work will elaborate on the (perfect) if needed when I get back
 
going to post a pic in an hour and a half of the problem coral. Have you considered doing a full test on your reef? -reefmedic
Although your using quality stuff, one check can still give you an idea how well the water is or even how fast its depleting by the time you get to another water change.
 
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