Topoff system - Direct connect vs. reservoir

[serpentman]

Hello all,

I am in the early stages of setting up a 92g reef tank. One thing that is abundantly clear is that I will require an auto-topoff system. Because space is limited under the tank, I am considering plumbing my system directly to an RO/DI system with a timer as a safeguard should the solenoid stick in the open position.

However, recently, I have begun to consider utilizing a reservoir along with a peristaltic pump (which should have no problem pumping from the next room.) My thoughts were that this would make it easier should I decided to incorporate kalkwasser into the mix.

I have 2 questions, is one system recommended over the other? How do those of you that direct connect incorporate kalkwasser?

 

[RobbyG]

I dont use Kalkwasser but I do have my RO directly plumbed to my Sump. I highly recommend that whatever you do make sure you have a backup on the system. I use a electronic controller on a level switch that opens a solenoid and that water is fed to a simple mechanical float in the sump. If the solenoid sticks, the mechanical float will only let the level get so high before it shuts off the water.

 

[serpentman]

I was planning on using the double switch system (one low water/one high water) from autotopoff.com connected to a solenoid. I was going to put the system on a timer to prevent overfilling disaster.

I have been considering an electronic controller. What additional benefits do you see?

I have also been considering the TUNZE OSMOLATOR UNIVERSAL 3155

 

[manderx]

if you want to do kalk, a direct hookup would probably feed water through the reactor too quickly if you hook the system to a timer to only come on at certain times to avert disaster and also make better water. the alternative would be to have the RO not on a timer, and replace evaporation a few drops at a time, which kills the RO/DI. you can't fit a small ~1-2 gallon reservoir in there somewhere? i use a ~2 gallon rubbermaid tub with a float valve. it fills once a day by timer on the RO, then i use a litermeter to dose from that through my kalk stirrer. the only float based topoff i would trust is the osmolator.

 

[serpentman]

Although it's getting pretty crowded because of the weird shape of the base (its a corner tank), I could squeeze a small reservoir in there for Kalwasser. I am not sure how I will administer CA (or if at all) as the tank is not currently stocked yet.

Do you know if the Osmolator can be wired to a solenoid versus a pump? I really like the system but would like to have it control the water coming from the RO/DI.

 

[moonpod]

I use a osmolator hooked up to a solenoid. The solenoid is before the kalkreactor. The RO/DI has an ASOV (most units have these) and therefore the solenoid controls it. I also have another two solenoids inline as backup control via a float switch and my IKS.

The downside is that by not using a resevoir you are subject to TDS creep if you don't produce an adequate volume with each activation

 

[robsmith32]

with regard to the reservoir or direct from ro, I've seen this mentioned somewhere, that ro units work better on batches, and if put directly on it just has small amounts an isn't nearly as pure. I question how reliable that statement is though. And would like to see data to back it up.

 

[manderx]

it's real easy to prove if you have a tds meter. just measure the tds as you turn on the RO and see how much water it has to make before it gets in the zone producing 0.

from what i've read, the whole idea of the RO membrane is water pressure squeezes the pores in the membrane to be small enough to do the job. when it first comes on, there's no pressure on it so lots of stuff gets through the big relaxed pores.

 

[RobbyG]

This is true, mine starts out at about 20ppm and drops after 1 to 2minutes to about 6ppm. The DI of course cleans up everything.
Without my Permeate pump it was 60 ppm and took 5 min to drop to 15ppm

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7322684#post7322684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manderx
it's real easy to prove if you have a tds meter. just measure the tds as you turn on the RO and see how much water it has to make before it gets in the zone producing 0.

from what i've read, the whole idea of the RO membrane is water pressure squeezes the pores in the membrane to be small enough to do the job. when it first comes on, there's no pressure on it so lots of stuff gets through the big relaxed pores.

 

[robsmith32]

then, that would answer the question about direct feeding or using a reservoir, shoot, it lends credence to not letting it auto and empty the first cup out and dump it each time.

 

[serpentman]

I read that incorporating a pressure switch which allows the level to drop about 1" can fix this problem. Because it lets the levels drop, the RO/DI system has to run longer and build sufficient pressure.

 

[phishlet]

I have a custom unit built to my specs from www.oceanussystems.com. It's essential a Zeus and Triton combined. It works this way.

I have a water resevoir under my 55 gallon sump. There is a maxijet 1200 in the resevoir. The output line from my RO/DI unit goes into the resevoir. The maxijet is activated to pump water to my sump.

The Oceanus controller has two sets of dual floats:

Dual float one is attached to my 55 gallon sump. As water evaporates the bottom float activates the maxijet which pumps fresh water from the resevoir to the sump. Should the water level in the sump get to high (which means the bottom float failed) the top float serves as a backup to shut off the maxijet. An alarm sounds and LED lights to indicate a problem.

Dual float two is attached to the side of the resevoir. When the water level gets too low in the resevoir the bottom float activates a solenoid which activates the RO/DI unit to pump water back into the resevoir to fill it back up. If the bottom float fails the second float will turn off the solenoid and, again, sound an alarm and light another LED to indicate a problem.

With this kind of set-up, should the RO/DI solenoid fail (unlikely, but possible) the resevoir will overflow and not the sump. While the result would still be water on the floor at least salinity would not be affected in the aquarium which is the important factor for me.

My RO/DI unit is a 110 gal/day unit from Filterdirect. TDS is always 2 or less regardless of how long it runs (assuming I'm using good fresh cartridges.

Here's some pics:

 

[serpentman]

That is a very impressive setup. If you don't mind my asking, how much was it?

I decided to go with a reservoir. Now my problem is how to locate it 25' away? Space is getting so limited under my cabinet and I would rather dedicate it to adding a Ca reactor.

 

[mke6103]

I second the top off units from Oceanussytems . It was actually phishlet who i heard about this from in another thread. They just came out with another unit called A tlas that has everthing from snail gaurds and pump protection to start, that unit is $189. I have the Posedian that unit ran i think $164. Very happy with unit.

 

[manderx]

Dual float two is attached to the side of the resevoir. When the water level gets too low in the resevoir the bottom float activates a solenoid which activates the RO/DI unit to pump water back into the resevoir to fill it back up.

so the RO comes on *every* time the maxijet pumps water to your tank? or do you have the RO on a timer so it only has to come on once a day?

 

[phishlet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7372993#post7372993 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by serpentman
That is a very impressive setup. If you don't mind my asking, how much was it?

I believe I paid $185 for it and its been worth every penny.

 

[phishlet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7376718#post7376718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manderx
so the RO comes on *every* time the maxijet pumps water to your tank? or do you have the RO on a timer so it only has to come on once a day?

At this point it comes on every time the maxijet pumps water to my sump. The resevoir is small enough though that the amount of water pumped out of the resevoir to the sump is enough that the RO/DI unit is on for quite a while refilling it. So in other words, the RO/DI unit is not on and off all day.