transitioning from glass holes open drain to eshopps/herbie

[jacksonpt]

Just in case anyone was interested in following along with my little project...

My system is about 10 years old, and is running two glass holes overflow boxes (open drain lines). They were exceptionally easy to install, have required virtually no maintenance, and have been as reliable as could be. But they are pretty outdated. Because they are open channel drain lines, they can be noisy and tend to create a lot of splashing/bubbles/salt creep where the water enters my sump.

My plan is to remove one of the open drain lines and replace it with a 2-drain herbie setup using an eshopps box. If everything goes in my favor, I'll keep the glass holes box as the internal box, and mate it to the external eshopps box with the dual drains. I'm not sure if fit/alignment will allow that to happen (it'll be close), but that's my "in a perfect world" scenario.



Pictures to come, because let's face it... no one cares if there aren't pictures.

 

[jacksonpt]

A reasonably current FTS

If you look closely, you can see the glass holes boxes are positioned side-by-side. This is why I'm hoping to be able to keep both boxes in place, but mate one of them to the external eshopps box. I'm way to, uh, particular to have 2 different boxes that clearly don't match/go together.

 

[jacksonpt]

Assuming I don't crack the tank removing the glass holes box, I'll end up with the following...

1 full siphon drain
2 open channel drains (1 from the remaining glass holes box, the other from the eshopps/herbie setup)

One of the open channels will be run as a trickle drain to balance the full siphon. The other will be a dry/emergency drain. Which line is which will depend on how the internal boxes line up and how water flows through them. The end result will, hopefully, be a frankenstiened bean drain system.



#fingerscrossed

 

[MarksReef]

I also have the outdated Glass Holes. Noisy is the word LOL. Im used to it and grown to like it sometimes.

 

[jacksonpt]

This is my quick-and-dirty mockup...

You'll just have to imagine that the overflow box pictured is actually 2 glass holes boxes.

 

[Willistein]

I think this will work well - good plan!

Perhaps the only thing that a purist might say is that the dry emergency line should be just that: 100% dry, to avoid possibly of it getting plugged and you not knowing it until you need it = wet floors. That being said, I think it's a really small risk.
Do you have some reason to join the trickle line and the emergency line? Could they remain separate all the way to the sump? My guess is you have two inlets on your sump.

This is a timely post, because I'm laying out my sump, and I'm assuming three inlets is the safest design: full siphon line, trickle line, emergency dry line.

 

[jacksonpt]

Ideally the emergency line will be completely dry, at least until it merges with teh trickle line under the stand. But I won't know for sure until I see how things line up and how the water flows.

The only reason I'm merging the 2 is space saving concerns. I have a pretty small drain section in my sump... and the drains share that space with my skimmer. I'm toying with the idea of having the emergency line drain into a different section of my sump such that (a) it remains the dry emergency line it should be, and (2) it keeps some semblance of order and tidiness under my stand. But regardless, I think merging them creates a very small risk... and within the context of managing and balancing risk, I'm not sure that's one I'll be losing sleep over.

Bigger picture though... there's always a way to be more safe, more redundant. A larger pipe diameter, another backup drain line, etc etc. At some point you have to call it good enough. Where that line gets drawn will vary person to person and system to system.

 

[Willistein]

I'm toying with the idea of having the emergency line drain into a different section of my sump such that (a) it remains the dry emergency line it should be, and (2) it keeps some semblance of order and tidiness under my stand. But regardless, I think merging them creates a very small risk... and within the context of managing and balancing risk, I'm not sure that's one I'll be losing sleep over.

Bigger picture though... there's always a way to be more safe, more redundant. A larger pipe diameter, another backup drain line, etc etc. At some point you have to call it good enough. Where that line gets drawn will vary person to person and system to system.

100% agree - I think it's a solid plan. In my sump layout, I think I will have the emergency go into a different section as well.
I'll have a dry emergency because it's easy enough to do - I'm starting from scratch and I have the space.

 

[jacksonpt]

Made a few changes to the mock-up...

Added in unions (which had always been part of the plan)...
Changed the herbie/eshopps box to the left side (from the right), which allows me to move the gate valve to behind the tank.

I also made a Lowe's run last night for the plumbing parts. Hopefully only 241 more trips to Lowes before I actually have all the parts I'll need...

 

[jacksonpt]

I've got most of it cut and dry fitted... weight/strain on the bulkhead/tank is going to be an issue. I need to figure out a way to support the pipes.

 

[jacksonpt]

So far, things couldn't be going much better.

Scary part #1... The glass holes box is off and the associated drain line is removed. It actually came off REALLY easily. *phew*

I cleaned up the glass around the hole to make sure there wasn't any debris or residue that might cause issues with the seal once things are put back together. Now for the big test - will the eshopps box line up with the existing hole. Yep. *phew* Well, mostly yep. Like, 99% yep.

And now for the 1% of not fitting/lining up...

By the smallest of measures, it doesn't quiet clear the tank trim. It's so close that I actually can't see it overlapping... but it does. Just enough to matter. But, I think I can deal with it. I hope.

So now onto dry fitting the plumbing...

Not too shabby... high and tight, just like I had planned. Some fine tuning of the alignment, but that's easy enough to do. And I'll probably have to relocate the power strip, which means more cord management nightmares. *sigh*


Lastly (for now), I pulled everything out from behind/under the tank, marked the pipes/fittings, and started glueing. Now, the waiting begins while everything dries. And by waiting, I mean procrastinating... I'm not looking forward to shaving the edge of the eshopps box down with my table saw... *please don't crack... please don't crack... please don't crack...*

 

[jacksonpt]

*phew*... cutting was a success. A sharper blade would have made for a cleaner cut, but good enough considering...

 

[jacksonpt]

Well, water is flowing. I've got a fairly worrisome leak between the external eshopps box and the tank... but I think water is actually leaking from between the internal glass holes box and the tank through the drilled hole, and down the outside of the back of the tank. For now, I've got a wash cloth pressed in place to absorb the more-than-a-drip-but-less-than-a-trickle leak so I can see how the setup works.

The siphon drain is great. It immediately quieted the system and significantly reduced splashing/bubbles in the sump. There is still a bit more water flowing through the remaining glass holes box/drain than I would have liked, but I can't do anything about that. Unless I leave the internal glass holes box for appearance, then plug the bulkhead/drain. That would force all the drain water through the eshopps hebie. I'm going to sleep on that one...

So far, so mostly good. I'm going to keep an eye on things for the next hour or so, then turn off teh return pump and try to figure out what to do about the leak. When using an internal box and an external box, joined by a bulkhead, where should the seal(s) go? Right now I've got one on the inside of the eshopps box at the bulkhead. Perhaps I should put it (or another one?) between the box and the tank?

 

[jacksonpt]

This morning I moved the bulkhead gasket from between the bulkhead flange and the inside of the eshopps box to between the eshopps box and the tank. Not sure why I didn't start with it there... lesson learned I guess.

Water has been running for about an hour now with no leaks or drips. The hebie/siphon drain is still settling in and getting adjusted, but I think I'm over the big hurdles in this project.



So as it sits, I'm running 2 internal glass holes boxes - one is mated to an eshopps box with 2 drain lines, the other is mated to the standard glass holes open channel drain line. Because both glass holes boxes are at the same height, water flows into them at very similar rates. As such, I basically have the siphon drain in the eshopps box running as a siphon, then open channel glass holes drain as the trickle drain, and the open channel in the eshopps box as a dry/emergency drain.

 

[jacksonpt]

A week or so in and, while I'm happy with things overall, the setup seems REALLY fussy - very sensitive to water flow/level, and very hard to tune. I'm not sure if that's the nature of a herbie, or a result of my herbie + open drain/overflow setup (I suspect the latter).

Oh well, I'm still happy I made the switch... but I am thinking more and more about plugging the bulkhead for the second glass holes box and only running the traditional 2-drain herbie.