Travis and Jessica's 400G Build

[A_CoupleClowns]

Hey guys, first thing we have to say is we are very excited to be here! So many amazing setups in this section.

Finally putting together a decent setup and decided we would put up a build thread to help keep track of the progress, and also receive suggestions and advice from all the experienced members here.

The tank dimensions are 96.5 x 36 x 27H, the front and both sides are starphire glass. We decided on these dimensions after looking at "olddudes" threads, you could say his awesome setup inspired and got us to actually pull the trigger. The overflow is a coast to coast style 88" long. The tank will have 1.25" powdercoated SS frames top and bottom. The bottom will be 1" pvc. The tank is being made by as we type this by A.G.E.. We will be incorporating a small basement fish room housing the sump/frag tank, filtration and a fan for humidity control.

Here is a bad phone photo of the CAD scan.

At this point in the build we are trying to plan out the overflow/return strategy. We are planning on going right over the top with the return, the overflow is what we are undecided on so far. The basement sump is not directly below the tank and has a 20ft horizontal run to make it to the sump, possibly even a little 5 inch up and over at some point (its a finished basement so a few unknowns will be mixed in I am sure). I was planning on doing Herbie style overflow because I have been told BA won't work well at all for our situation. One very important note, Jessica said if the tank ever overflows upstairs its done and out of the house, period. :uzi: So an overflow setup with a large emergency drain is required lol. Do the experienced members have any ideas how I should move forward with the overflow/drain setup? We have never setup a basement sump and want to do it right the first time. What size bulk heads and piping would you run?

We will probably be stuck running a monster sized return pump, Reeflo Barracuda/Hammerhead maybe? We are planning on running a Gyre pump on each end of the tank for water circulation. ATI T5's for lighting, we have 2 Radium 400w with Lumatek ballasts but we would need at least one more and would like to try and cut some power usage with this large of a tank. Just about to start building the stand any day now. AGE called today asking about the holes for the overflow and what the return plan was so want to get that squared away asap.

I am sure I missed a few things but thats a good start at least.

 

[skanderson]

looks like you are off to a very nice start. one thing I think I would change about my build is that instead of doing one hammerhead pump I would do 2 smaller pumps like darts for instance. It would make me more secure if I were to have a failure. that being said my hammerhead has run for 3 years without a hitch and I have a dart that is pushing 7 years of continuous work without failure. I would do the same thing regarding flow in the tank and use 2 circulation pumps is case one goes down you are still ok. just my 2 cents.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

looks like you are off to a very nice start. one thing I think I would change about my build is that instead of doing one hammerhead pump I would do 2 smaller pumps like darts for instance. It would make me more secure if I were to have a failure. that being said my hammerhead has run for 3 years without a hitch and I have a dart that is pushing 7 years of continuous work without failure. I would do the same thing regarding flow in the tank and use 2 circulation pumps is case one goes down you are still ok. just my 2 cents.

Thanks!

I would like to be able to do dual pumps, in the case of a failure you can't beat that type of setup. Problem is with 13-14' of head height and a 20' horizontal run I don't know if the darts or many other smaller pumps would be able to keep up. I do plan on picking up a spare return pump to keep as a backup in the case of a failure. Also in the display we are planning on 2 gyre pumps, one on each end. So if one goes down the other one will keep things moving.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

With this long vertical run we have (20') down to the basement sump would a Bean overflow have trouble starting the siphon?

We were kind of planning to just do a Herbie style overflow because I have been told that should work, but if a BA will work would that be the safest option when thinking about emergency drain capacity and no water spills upstairs?

At this point we are not even convinced a Herbie will work out with that vertical run. Any advice is appreciated.

Should we go with 2" bulk heads?

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Or should we just go Durso since its a basement sump and we wont hear the sump drain noise upstairs at the display?

Basement sump is right under a bedroom so low noise would be a plus but I am sure I could quiet it down enough to work out just fine.

 

[worm5406]

Beananimal would actually be easier to start the siphon. At that height you could most likely get 5000+ in flow from it too.

Once the beananimal is tuned in to the siphon you would not hear that either. You set it up to pull exactly what you want it to pull and it runs.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Beananimal would actually be easier to start the siphon. At that height you could most likely get 5000+ in flow from it too.

Once the beananimal is tuned in to the siphon you would not hear that either. You set it up to pull exactly what you want it to pull and it runs.

+1.

Forget durso. Not good for flow, no emergency.

Forget herbie. Good flow, emergency. Not that forgiving.

BA has the emergency and is good for lots of flow. It is also very good at a wide range of flows.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Will a BA work with my long vertical run and a possible up and over somewhere in that run?

We would like to run the BA but someone told us it will not work well at all with the vertical run. We want the emergency capacity.

 

[SPotter]

I know durso's get a lot of negative comments but I have durso's on my tank that is similar in size to yours and its so quiet I would put it up against any BA or Herbie overflow on here. As far as emergency goes....I have two overflow boxes each with 2 x 1.5" bulkheads. One is the durso and the other is just a pipe that goes slightly higher than where the level of the durso is for emergency overflow. It has worked flawlessly since inception.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

I know durso's get a lot of negative comments but I have durso's on my tank that is similar in size to yours and its so quiet I would put it up against any BA or Herbie overflow on here. As far as emergency goes....I have two overflow boxes each with 2 x 1.5" bulkheads. One is the durso and the other is just a pipe that goes slightly higher than where the level of the durso is for emergency overflow. It has worked flawlessly since inception.

When I said durso that was pretty much exactly what I was thinking. With the horizontal runs and a possible up and over I think the dursos with an emergency drain or two like you may work very well.

We have an 88" wide coast to coast overflow, we could do the same as you and put four 1.5" bulkheads in there. It would be nice to only run 3 pipes though since we will also have a return pipe to run. Do you think two 1.5" (drains) and one 2" (emergency Drain) would work about the same?

What kind of turnover rates are you running in your display? Also are you running a basement sump? If so any horizontal runs?

Sorry for so many questions LOL...

 

[SPotter]

When I said durso that was pretty much exactly what I was thinking. With the horizontal runs and a possible up and over I think the dursos with an emergency drain or two like you may work very well.

We have an 88" wide coast to coast overflow, we could do the same as you and put four 1.5" bulkheads in there. It would be nice to only run 3 pipes though since we will also have a return pipe to run. Do you think two 1.5" (drains) and one 2" (emergency Drain) would work about the same?

What kind of turnover rates are you running in your display? Also are you running a basement sump? If so any horizontal runs?

Sorry for so many questions LOL...

Unfortunatley where I live in SC we dont have basements so I decided to convert half of my garage into a fish room which is on the opposite side of the house or approximately 26' away. Fortunately our house was built on a crawl space so I was able to drill thru my floor and run approximately 150 ft of 1.5" pvc to connect the tank to the fish room. I have enough pitch in the line that water flows freely with no backing up. I really havent figured out my turnover in the tank but I run a Dolphin 6250 pump for my entire system which feeds my frag tank and live rock tank. I have plenty of flow going thru the tank with no issues. I would have done a coast to coast overflow but the tank is up against the wall and wouldnt be able to get to it once it was filled if I need to do any work so my overflows are external and sit about 6" in the from the ends of the tank.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Unfortunatley where I live in SC we dont have basements so I decided to convert half of my garage into a fish room which is on the opposite side of the house or approximately 26' away. Fortunately our house was built on a crawl space so I was able to drill thru my floor and run approximately 150 ft of 1.5" pvc to connect the tank to the fish room. I have enough pitch in the line that water flows freely with no backing up. I really havent figured out my turnover in the tank but I run a Dolphin 6250 pump for my entire system which feeds my frag tank and live rock tank. I have plenty of flow going thru the tank with no issues. I would have done a coast to coast overflow but the tank is up against the wall and wouldnt be able to get to it once it was filled if I need to do any work so my overflows are external and sit about 6" in the from the ends of the tank.

Fortunately its probably warm where you live in SC unlike up here in MN with our basements, LOL!

Interesting, so you still have quite a long horizontal run going but the pitch takes care of it. I wonder If we run a slight pitch everywhere possible besides the possible up and over if I will have any problems moving the water through the pipes.

Now that you say that I don't know how I am going to work on our external coast to coast, the tank is going right up against a wall like yours :headwally:. Maybe I should put the bulk heads off to each side. If we do four 1.5" bulkheads like your setup we could do 2 on each end. I better get a good step stool/ladder I can see I am sure to be climbing all over this thing lol...

 

[worm5406]

I am in the process of setting up a 265g.

I am putting in about a 60" wide overflow with an external drain box.

My drop will be only 6 foot to the sump water level.

The drain box will have 3x 1.5 drains for a BA system. Full siphon, wet, emergency. At this height and size I will be able to push/siphon over 5000 gph. While I do not anticipate running it at full power, well maybe once to see it work, it will have a sizable amount of flow.

With that being said, on a BA, going downstairs (a drop of 10 feet+ X off side of tank= 16+feet) the siphon / gravity flow of the water would be able to support and push the water to your sump.

The MAIN advantage is one pipe can handle that type flow with a backup drain (wet) that handles a trickle. In the event of something, the wet starts to take up the slack. If the siphon clogs (snail,mushroom,fish) the wet would assume the full siphon. The emergency would only take up if both lines died.

In a normal tank setup, except when on vacation, you would look or listen at least once a day. You would notice the change in sound telling you that there was a problem with the drain.

Watch these three videos:

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tWMzmiU3wDY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yK9ul6vH3QI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Start this one about 5:00:

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pCxOm2eU1kQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here is a comparison between durso and BA:

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ca1yPPaePfk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A durso has an open air channel. This means any water going down the durso will slosh and pull air down causing noise in plumbing pipe and bubbles in the sump.

I like that last video a bit more because it even shows a test. Granted he does not have an emergency, his emergency is to NOT have enough water to cause it to run out of water instead. Which I do NOT like because my ATO would start to fill it up.

 

[SPotter]

As far as the up and over goes, I would try to minimize that as much as possible.

 

[SPotter]

I'll post a video of my dursos later. I think it's great that you can push 5000 gph thru a BA but why would you want 20x turnover on your dt when most shoot for 3-5x turnover?

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

I am in the process of setting up a 265g.

I am putting in about a 60" wide overflow with an external drain box.

My drop will be only 6 foot to the sump water level.

The drain box will have 3x 1.5 drains for a BA system. Full siphon, wet, emergency. At this height and size I will be able to push/siphon over 5000 gph. While I do not anticipate running it at full power, well maybe once to see it work, it will have a sizable amount of flow.

With that being said, on a BA, going downstairs (a drop of 10 feet+ X off side of tank= 16+feet) the siphon / gravity flow of the water would be able to support and push the water to your sump.

The MAIN advantage is one pipe can handle that type flow with a backup drain (wet) that handles a trickle. In the event of something, the wet starts to take up the slack. If the siphon clogs (snail,mushroom,fish) the wet would assume the full siphon. The emergency would only take up if both lines died.

In a normal tank setup, except when on vacation, you would look or listen at least once a day. You would notice the change in sound telling you that there was a problem with the drain.


A durso has an open air channel. This means any water going down the durso will slosh and pull air down causing noise in plumbing pipe and bubbles in the sump.

I like that last video a bit more because it even shows a test. Granted he does not have an emergency, his emergency is to NOT have enough water to cause it to run out of water instead. Which I do NOT like because my ATO would start to fill it up.

Thanks Worm watching the vids now.

So with my height drop around 13' that will be enough to push the water/air right on through the pipes? In that case would 2" bulkheads pipes be overkill with the BA setup?

 

[worm5406]

I'll post a video of my dursos later. I think it's great that you can push 5000 gph thru a BA but why would you want 20x turnover on your dt when most shoot for 3-5x turnover?

I am not looking for 20x the flow. The pumps I have can push that amount. I go by the aspect of have a bit more horse power to NOT run at 100% all the time. Save on heat and wear. With two pumps running, I can take one off line and fix/replace it with no problems too. Instead of being down for a day or two with no flow.

My tank is going to be geared toward a S. Gigantea Anemone tank.

Kinda like this:
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wrMjS0fsARM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But this is outside OP thread talking about what I want to do, just giving ideas for him.

While the durso works perfectly, I have it on my 180. A larger tank should be piped a bit better, as moving/maintenance is not as simple as a 180.

I am just saying that since he is plumbing for 3 lines anyway, to set up a beananimal would just be a change in the durso head. At any point he could just swap the head out and make it back to a dual durso with emergency channel.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

I'll post a video of my dursos later. I think it's great that you can push 5000 gph thru a BA but why would you want 20x turnover on your dt when most shoot for 3-5x turnover?

Maybe I can drill my way out of that up and over situation. We are going to find out really soon here. There is a bathroom right in between the sump and where the lines will come down through the floor for the tank. Maybe I can find a way to run them through the bathroom wall or something.

We will be aiming for that 3-5x range. Any higher than that seems to become a serious power draw on a tank this large. We want to keep the energy use down anywhere possible.

 

[worm5406]

Thanks Worm watching the vids now.

So with my height drop around 13' that will be enough to push the water/air right on through the pipes? In that case would 2" bulkheads pipes be overkill with the BA setup?

Yes it would. Bare in mind to make sure the sump is able to handle the water in a power failure, as that many pipes full of water is quite a bit.

2" would give max flow of over 7000. Overkill. 1.5" would be better PLUS if you are going to pipe it through the wall 2" is a bit big pipe. (no jokes)

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

So as of right now the plan is 3 bulkheads in the overflow.

Should I place them all in one end or have one of them located in the opposite end of the coast to coast?

The last thing I need to figure out is bulkhead size. Sounds like 1.5" can handle the flow no problem should we do two 1.5" with a big 2" emergency? Or just go all three 1.5"? So many variables at play here in my mind.

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to screw this part of the build up, once its drilled there is no going back.