Pufferpunk
New member
Quiksilver, Excellent idea! You looked so serious making it! 
Treating with Vitamin C
- Thread starter Pufferpunk
- Start date
- Status
madadi
ReefOG
why not drop it directly in the sump in an area of high flow. i bet all that oxygenation by the air stone is reducing the efficiency of the vitamin C at least a bit. i like the automatic feeder. thats the smallest one i ever seen. where did you get it from? i know you said its old but maybe they still make it.
the 3.875 is from the website linked on page 23 (among other pages). You should really read the article. It outlines exactly what you should be doing.
I would like to start dosing with buffered C, but I can't get an accurate reading on my calcium levels. I think I'm going to do a huge water change this weekend. Maybe like 25g or something like that. Maye if I do like 3 or 4 of them like 2 weeks apart I'll get whatever is messing up my tests out of the system. I really don't know what to do about the tests.
I would like to start dosing with buffered C, but I can't get an accurate reading on my calcium levels. I think I'm going to do a huge water change this weekend. Maybe like 25g or something like that. Maye if I do like 3 or 4 of them like 2 weeks apart I'll get whatever is messing up my tests out of the system. I really don't know what to do about the tests.
Pufferpunk
New member
You can get Sodium acsorbate which has no calcium in it. That's what I'm using.
Im not one to test very often as I know what my systems take.....but uner the circumstances I busted out the test kits fo this one
I think it would be helpful to everyone if people who arent using buffered C to report the affects they have seen.
anyway...heres myinput.
Yes i kind of ignored the 5mg to start and just kind of went with what I have read as well as what some people with similar sized systems wewre using
i did 1000 mg yesterday once. I didnt measure. But today i dosed 1000 mg twice and did measure both times. It roughly dropped my dkh a half point each time. . measurements taken immediately before...and 30 minutes after. confirmed an hour after and I threw a touch of buffer in to compensate. I see this not mattering so much now, but when i get up to the mass dumping my tank requires to get to 50 mg/g I can see it possibly mattering quite a bit
I think it would be helpful to everyone if people who arent using buffered C to report the affects they have seen.
anyway...heres myinput.
Yes i kind of ignored the 5mg to start and just kind of went with what I have read as well as what some people with similar sized systems wewre using
i did 1000 mg yesterday once. I didnt measure. But today i dosed 1000 mg twice and did measure both times. It roughly dropped my dkh a half point each time. . measurements taken immediately before...and 30 minutes after. confirmed an hour after and I threw a touch of buffer in to compensate. I see this not mattering so much now, but when i get up to the mass dumping my tank requires to get to 50 mg/g I can see it possibly mattering quite a bit
Last edited:
Pufferpunk
New member
I like the secure feeling of dosing with buffered, pure sodium ascorbate.
Pufferpunk
New member
It could be the filler in the tablets then. Where are you placing the tabs?
quiksilver
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11725882#post11725882 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Quiksilver, Excellent idea! You looked so serious making it!
Thanks!
I'm using pure pharmaceutical grade Ascorbic Acid in powder form for the vita C. I'm willing to bet that hitting that tiny amount of oxygen isn't destroying the effects too much. But you may be right in which case I'll remove the air pump and add a mini jet.
The auto feeder is the Rainbow Lifegard Automatic Feeder.
Pufferpunk
New member
I am no scientist but that sure sounds like a bunch of stuff you might not need to be adding to your tank.
The stuff I use contains:
1/4tsp equals
Vitamin C 1112mg
Sodium 137 mg
That's it.
Last edited:
Pufferpunk
New member
this is what seemed like the best option to me.........not buffered of course.
your local GNC will carry it.
ingredients: vitamin c, rose hips I like that ingredient list
http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...am=gnc_a_z_vitamin_c_crysta&CAWELAID=61290838
pufferpunk......I thought you were using hobby vitamin C. Correct me if im wrong, but that isnt buffered relevant to what we want it buffered for....its buffered for human consumption. inst that different than what we want anyway?? Or is it the same somehow?? I honeslty have no idea.....when you said you were using buffered vitamin C I assumed you were using that kent stuff that was mentioned who knows how many pages ago. lol
quiksilver
New member
Not sure if you meant this at me or not so apologies if not.
Ascorbic acid is a water soluble form of vitamin C that prevents scurvy, which can develop in animals when too much vitamin C is added. It has nothing else in it at all, no sugar, sodium, or anything (0 additives).
It does dissolve in oxygen and light after time and therefore as stated I may have to ended up replacing the airstone with a minijet. I just figured it's anti-oxygen properties lowering a systems oxygen in a reef as small as mine, the airstone might help a little.
jdieck
New member
OK I will try to explain it again. NirvanaFan is calculating real, actual, chemically correct ppm (milligrams per liter)
Thiel seems to use milligrams per gallon for it's concentration but erroneously calls it in ppm
When Thiel say use 30 ppm he is really talking about mg per gallon so to calculate Thiel's dose use 30 mgs/gallon in a 100 gallon system that will be a dose of 30*100=3000 mg of vitamin but in actual chemically correct parts per million (milligrams per liter) in the same 100 gal system the 3000 mg dose actually gives you a concentration of only 7.9 ppm or 3000/(100x3.7854) NOT 30 ppm.
In simple terms if Thiel say use 30 ppm in reality is saying use 30 mg/gal or 7.9 ppm (30/3.7854) where 3.7854 is the conversion of gallons to liters.
Saying it differently, although he calls his dose in ppm what he describe in the method to calculate the total amount is milligrams per gallon contradicting what he say about ppm in the table.
The article READS: (See link)
http://www.athiel.com/lib/vitC496.html
The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:
Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm
Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm
Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm
Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm
After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days.
The total treatment period is thus 14 days.
In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more
During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon
During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads).
The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation. ..........
And also reads:
Let me give you an example:
You determine that the gallonage you need to treat is 90 gallons
The concentration you want to achieve is 30 ppm.
This means that you need to add 90 times 30 or 2700 mg of Vitamin C. .......
but SHOULD READ:
".... The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:
Day 1 : concentration of 5 mg/gal
Day 2 : concentration of 15 mg/gal
Day 3 : concentration of 30 mg/gal
Day 4 : concentration of 50 mg/gal
After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days.
The total treatment period is thus 14 days.
In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more
During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon
During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads).
The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation. .........."
And this should read:
".... Let me give you an example:
You determine that the gallonage you need to treat is 90 gallons
The concentration you want to achieve is 30 mg/gal .
This means that you need to add 90 times 30 or 2700 mg of Vitamin C. ....... "
As you can see in the table he refers to ppm but the way he calculates the total weight of the dose is multiplying the concentration by the gallons. If the concentration was really in ppm he should be multiplying it by the liters not by the gallons in the system and you should be using almost four times the amount which in my opinion will be excessive so be careful. Use the table as mg/gallon to calculate your actual dose.
Finally if you need to calculate the actual water volume in your system, you can use this volume calculator which will give you a very good approximation.
http://reef.diesyst.com/volcalc/volcalc.html
Pufferpunk
New member
Quicksilver, I edited that post to Clopez.
I'm lucky my system is estimated at 100g. It makes the math soooooo much easier.
jdieck, Maybe you can explain to us how the Calcium ascorbate & Sodium ascorbate buffers the C?
I'm lucky my system is estimated at 100g. It makes the math soooooo much easier.
jdieck, Maybe you can explain to us how the Calcium ascorbate & Sodium ascorbate buffers the C?
jdieck
New member
It seems this is a confusing item for many in this thread I would try to clarify.
The original preparation of Vitamin C (L-ascorbate) comes in the form of ascorbic acid which is ascorbate with an H radical.
When reacting in water the acid as such dissociates into three forms: H ions (Which lowers your PH and alkalinity like any other acid), L-ascorbate (the usable form of vitamin C) and D-ascorbate (not usable as vitamin).
Because of the negative effects of the H ion in the human digestive system (upset stomach) there are three forms of the vitamin called "buffered" that replace the H radical with a metallic ion most common are sodium, calcium or magnesium and are called:
Sodium ascorbate, calcium ascorbate and magnesium ascorbate.
They are called buffered and many bottles will say that it contains calcium carbonate. Unless the calcium carbonate comes as a filler the term "contains calcium carbonate" is improperly used.
The buffered versions are prepared by reacting ascorbic acid with either sodium carbonate (or bicarbonate), Calcium carbonate or Magnesium carbonate. The carbonate portion of those "buffers" react with the H ion in the acid to form water and CO2 leaving as a resultant the "buffered" form of the ascorbate.
These "buffered" versions if pure will and should not have an effect on your PH or alkalinity but they all will radically drop the ORP in your tank.
People in this thread seem to be using three different formulations, ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate and calcium ascorbate.
Ascorbic acid is the one originally used by Thiel but has two disadvantages. It affects the PH (with a slight reduction in alkalinity) and about 50% ends up as D-ascorbate which is not technically a usable form (at least in humans)
Sodium ascorbate will have around 90% L-ascorbate and 10% sodium while calcium ascorbate will also be around 90% L-ascorbate and 10 % calcium.
Sodium ascorbate may increase salinity in the form of sodium and calcium carbonate will increase the calcium but those are really insignificant. To give you an idea. 1000 mg of calcium ascorbate for every 25 gallons of aquarium water will increase calcium by the undetectable amount of 2 ppm
so do not worry about it.Now having said all that it is not clear if the nice response you are noticing in the critters is really due to the use of the vitamin by the corals.
Humans due to a genetic defect can not create the vitamin as part of our biological processes but most animals can and there is no knowledge of how or if at all the corals can benefits from elevated levels of the vitamin per se but from some other effects in might have in the aquarium chemistry.
Being an antioxidant the addition of the ascorbate will brake the molecule of many of the refractory oxygen and nitrate based organics that pollute our tanks and feed some bacteria (like our beloved cyano) and are not typically skimmable. By breaking the molecules it can make them skimmable thus improving the overall quality of the system.
By the way, It will be interesting to see if those of you that are dosing and had or have a cyano problem if you have seen a reduction in the cyano reproduction.
In any case, answering the question if it is the same to dose either ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate or calcium ascorbate? I would say that with the exception of the effects noted using ascorbic acid there will be no difference in my opinion.
I will be more concerned about potential fillers or other stuff that may come with the formulation or the pill or the powder. Many may contain anti-caking agents, sugars or other fillers that the FDA call "inerts" form human point of view so they may not be required to be listed in the ingredients.
jdieck
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11728460#post11728460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyyyguy
this is what seemed like the best option to me.........not buffered of course.
your local GNC will carry it.
ingredients: vitamin c, rose hips I like that ingredient list
http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...am=gnc_a_z_vitamin_c_crysta&CAWELAID=61290838
Rose hips is just another source of vitamin C.
Amount of vitamin C mg per 100 g in:
Kakadu plum 3100
Camu Camu 2800
Rose hip 2000
Orange 50
so rose hips contain 40 times more vitamin C than an orange but in any case I would consider it as a filler as 98% of it is not really vitamin but they would make a great therapeutic tea
- Status
Similar threads
