Treatment for Baby Clown

[plaz]

My neighbor bought 2 tank bred Ocellaris from LiveAquaria. They came in 6 days ago. They were really tiny (I would say under 3/4"). One swam like crazy (hyper), the other stayed toward the bottom opening and closing his mouth. They could not even eat flake food - so I loaned him my brine shrimp setup and some selcon.

Anyway, things are looking up. The little hyper one (almost transparent when it came in) is doing very well. Both are swimming together some now and have gained in color and size.
However, the one that stayed toward the bottom has frayed pectoral fins (a little better than they were at first) - probably why he did not/does not swim as well. His feces also look like a thin transparent string and hang on for a long time. However, he really looks better than he did (other than the little string)

Does this sound bacterial or parasitic? Should they be treated and if so, how? They are such babies I don't know how to advise him to treat them. This possibly should have been posted in fish disease forum - but like I said, these are really just babies (I don't think LA should have sold them quite this young).

Thanks for any advice.

 

[plaz]

I forgot to mention that the mouth on one with the frayed pectoral fins opens and closes constantly (has from day 1). He does seem to eat some - brine shrimp only. The little one will now eat some flakes at the top if ground well.

And... sorry for the long post!

 

[NicoleC]

Any film on the one breathing rapidly?

Sounds like at least one clown has brook and definately intestinal worms.

I would treat both for brooklynella ASAP in QT, as well as any other fish that have been in the same tank with them. Keep the QT at about 1.018 and provide plenty of aeration. The QT will need daily water changes.

After the brook treatment, treat all fish with a dewormer in their food. If any other conditions pop up before the deworming treatment, treat the worms last -- they are the least important.

Leave the main tank fallow for at least 4-6 weeks to let any parasites die off.

 

[Kathy55g]

Doesn't sound good. I am no expert, but it sounds like you are treating them well.

LA should not sell, much less ship, such small clowns.

 

[jwreffner]

Good to know about LA...never ordered from them...not sure I will now. It is too bad. The aquacultured ones I got from saltwaterfish.com were quite large and quite healthy.

 

[Fishboy42]

Good advise so far. There are two things that came to my mind after reading your description.

That little one could have a swim-bladder problem? I have seen this come up when a fish has been exposed to low temperatures (during shipping in your case?). The fish often has trouble to swim up into the water column and looks like it is struggling when it tries to move. It is difficult to keep such a fish healthy because it often will not feed normally.

I've seen lymphocystis on Tank-Bred clowns from LA, but they wouldn't help me with that, even after sending pictures of newly-arrived fish showing growths -- they asked for pics so they could forward them for review by their "aquatic veterinarians" who supposedly "inspected" the fish before shipment(!). IME this can also cause the erratic behavior you describe even when the symptoms are gone. Good water quality and food in a low-stress environment seems to help them recover, and there isn't really a treatment, but it is seldom fatal by itself.

I also recently ordered a pair of tomatoes from LA (TB England) that came in 3/4" and brown-- healthy fish this time, but I was still a little disappointed...

-Matt

 

[Fishboy42]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6844127#post6844127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jwreffner
The aquacultured ones I got from saltwaterfish.com were quite large and quite healthy.

Same here -- great fish (and not much customer service...)

 

[plaz]

No film at all. They both look better than they did. The smaller hyper one is now as big as the other one and has calmed down to almost normal pace (both have grown to over 3/4" now). They sometimes swim together now. Their color is really much better too.

Because of the improvement and no film, I don't think it is Brook - but I'm no clown expert! So, please let me know if I am wrong. The frayed fins and stringy feces is the main thing that worries me now. What would he use to treat them for worms (and how much for that size fish)?

I have some metronidazole and/or focus I could give him to soak the brine in - but don't know that would be the right thing to use (I'm sure they don't have ich).

Thanks for all your help!

I agree about LA - they had such a good reputation that I hate to hear/see them doing this kind of thing. These would have been gone for sure if they had just been dumped into someones big tank!

 

[BlackOnyx]

Is stringy feces always a sign of worms? I noticed one of my 4 or so month old clowns with stringy feces the past few days? Everyone else is fine.

If it is a sign of worms what do you process do you do? I tried jungle labs anti-parasite food and my sick fish at the time didnt seem to care for it.

 

[Fishboy42]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6844332#post6844332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plaz
I agree about LA - they had such a good reputation that I hate to hear/see them doing this kind of thing.

I didn't mean to be too harsh on them--I've had good experiences there too (lots of them are still swimming in my tanks), but I guess I mostly remember the frustrating ones (some of which are also in my tanks)...

 

[NicoleC]

In this case, the rapid breathing -- provided there is good oxygenation -- is the clue to brook. Brook is quite common on wild caught clowns. Personally, I'd treat for it using the Formalin bath method; better safe than sorry.

It's possible that the rapid breathing is due to high levels of ammonia in the shipping bag having damaged the gills. This will heal by itself in days. If the clown is STILL breathing rapidly, AND O2 levels in the tank are above 7, I would suspect another cause, i.e. brook.

(Or it could be severe stress, if the fish is getting terribly harassed by another fish or the water conditions are awful. That requires an environmental cure.)

The frayed fins do not bother me much unless they are continuing to deteriorate. If they were in a community tank, they could have been getting the snot kicked out of them.

Stringy white feces is not always worms... it can also mean the fish is starved to death and shedding it's intestinal lining. Recovery from this is rare. Since WC clowns almost always have worms and other parasites, it's a safe bet to treat for that as well, and won't do any harm to the fish.

 

[Fishboy42]

I believe these are Tank Bred? (although they could certainly still have picked up brook or other maladies along the way, I think intestinal parasites are a little harder to "catch")

 

[jwreffner]

Fishboy...yeah saltwaterfish.com's customer services blows chunks! I swear their email's go into a black hole. A phone number would be nice. Good fish...bad service.

 

[BlackOnyx]

not to hi-jack but my clowns are TB they're getting pretty big too

 

[plaz]

These are tank bred false percs (from the breeder in England). The QT tank they are in is a 20 long with an eheim canister (the smaller green one) and a hang on back. He changed out a 900mj power head for the hang on when they first came in because they were getting blown around too much.

The fins haven't gotten worse. The breathing hasn't gotten any worse either - in fact, it may - possibly even be a little better. I'll check on them tomorrow morning and see how they look... if the mouth is still constantly opening and closing (his sides don't really seem to be "huffing and puffing" - just the mouth), do they need to be treated like adults for brook or should we give him a little more time (the other fish's mouth still looks normal and he is eating like a pig now).

Thanks!

 

[stykthyn]

I would put formalin straight into the water and do small daily water changes. It sounds like both are eating well and are on the road to recovery. I think it is horrible that LA sends fish out like this. Makes me not want to order from them now.

 

[NicoleC]

His feces also look like a thin transparent string and hang on for a long time.

I think intestinal parasites are a little harder to "catch"

Not hard to catch at all - all they have to do is eat the poop of an infected fish.

I prefer the bath method for Formalin. It's pretty rough on the fish and if the fish is in great distress it's easier to watch them and scoop them out than to have them in a weaker concentration 24/7, unsupervised. Also, if the gills are damaged for some reason, the bath will make them run around in distress or jump out. Owwww. Do not ever put a fish in Formalin with open wounds.

Kudos to your neighbor for having them in a QT tank -- it makes handling this MUCH easier.

'Tis the nature of the industry; I would not blame LA. Personally, I would never mail order fish. I want to see them swimming around, the conditions they are in, if they have sick tank mates and have a chance to pick out the healthiest ones.

 

[plaz]

Thanks everyone!
I just checked on them and they are looking even better this morning. I took a magnifying glass and there are no signs of white or film on their bodies at all. The "sick" one even swam across the tank a few times, although his mouth still opens and closes (not as wide). A couple of days ago, his gills looked red... now they don't.

He is going to slowly lower the spg and see if the breathing gets better before trying anything else. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm pretty sure he would not react well right now to the bath since the gills were that red... hoping for now that it is still recovering from the shipping water.

 

[NicoleC]

Ahhh... red gills would explain the heavy breathing. Perhaps a rough transit for him. Help him out with an airstone or two in the tank and a nearby window cracked open, in addition to the lower spg.

 

[jwreffner]

Hope he plaz doesn't live in Ohio...brrrrrr chilly! That window cracking would feeze them!!!!