Tricky situation

[Blue Ring Sting]

Hey all

As some of you know I have acquired a pair of Multibar Angels. Sadly they contracted white spot last night and by the time I noticed it the smaller female was already on her way out and sadly died this morning after some heavy breathing and laying on the bottom of the tank.

So the story was... The pair was added to my shallow SPS tank, both looked very healthy on appearance and just to be safe I was doing 1 hour dips in about 8 L of water with 6 ml of Seachem Paraguard. The pair were the only fish in my tank.

They were reluctant to accept any foods no matter how nice I made it look or smell, using different kinds of shrimp, mussels, flake and pellets foods. I was soaking food in Seachem Entice and Brightwell Angelixir. So I decided to use some live mysis, and that was the winner. Both of them gulped up the live mysis without asking twice but that's all that they have been interested in eating. They were continuously grazing on the live rock as well.

Now I have added the male into a QT tank now, just with PVC pieces, a HOB filter, air stone and circulation pump. I will be using hyposalinity over a number of weeks to eradicate the disease.

Now my concern is the following, as he will be alone in the QT with the salinity at about 1.009 over a number of weeks, he has not yet accepted frozen, flake or pellet foods. Problem is how long will the live mysis survive in a tank with a salinity of 1.009 and secondly, if I add live rock into the tank, how long before the critters on the live rock start to die off? In the SPS tank I was going to continue feeding live mysis and slowly mix frozen mysis with the live and wean them onto frozen foods.

I have attempted a massive amount of foods and I am not sure what else I can try. Can anyone who has had a Multibar Angel, maybe tell me what they got them to eat? Oh yeah and to mention these are from Indonesia and not the Marshall Islands.

I will be receiving my Venustus Angel this week and he will be slowly placed into another tank with a salinity of 1.023 and slowly dropped down to 1.009 and added with the Multibar.

Thanks all.

 

[Rea17]

Based on the quick death of the female, I'd be more worried that they have velvet, ich wouldn't kill a fish overnight. Hyposalinity has no affect on velvet, the male will need prompt CP or formalin treatment.

How long ago were the fish acquired? Did they display any other symptoms of illness before the female suddenly showed spots and died?

 

[triggreef]

Based on the quick death of the female, I'd be more worried that they have velvet, ich wouldn't kill a fish overnight. Hyposalinity has no affect on velvet, the male will need prompt CP or formalin treatment.

How long ago were the fish acquired? Did they display any other symptoms of illness before the female suddenly showed spots and died?

Perfect advice

 

[anbosu]

If it is in fact ich, I would research the tank transfer method, I think it will work better for your current situation.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

I have considered that it could be velvet as well. I have been observing the pair carefully since I have received them and yesterday was the first time that I saw white spots / ich on the pair. There were not too many spots on each of them. When I saw the female this morning she never had any spots on her and she was not coated with a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film. The male now has no spots on him at all. I have him in a QT now with the salinity at 1.018 - 1.019.

I have had the pair for 11 days. I was dotting down there progress day by day as I am aware that the Indo Multibar Angels don't generally do well compared to those of the Marshall Islands. No signs of any illness until yesterday.

The circumstances around the female dying was a bit unclear, when I came to the aquarium this morning and switched the light on I was unable to see the female. Upon observation I then saw that she was stuck between one of my wave makers and return from my HOB skimmer. When I switched the wave maker off the female freed herself from the wave maker and went to lay on the bottom of the tank, breathing rapidly but no marks or spots on her at all.

I have done a lot of research on the web to see what it could be and the listed symptoms for velvet, none of them appeared on the female apart from the rapid breathing and lethargy at the end.

Gold, brown or rust colored patches on body
Cloudy eye(s)
Fish is scratching on rocks or substrate
Fish is rapidly breathing or gasping
Fish is lethargic and/or hiding

The male is swimming around normally now and is still eating the live Mysis and has no spots on him.

What else could I look out for?

 

[griseum]

Sorry to hear Blue Ring Sting !

+1 on Formalin. IMO a Formalin-bath as soon as possible might be best.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

Another problem. Here in my country as far as I know we do not have formaldehyde / formalin. I have asked my pharmacist and she said no she doesn't have, does it go by a different name or is there a product that I can use that is similar?

Thanks Griseum. I knew a pair was gonna be difficult even after all the poor reviews given from the Indo collected ones. I always wanted a pair and took the chance of getting them because I knew I could give them a better home than that of the LFS where I bought them.

I'm getting my Venustus on Thursday and he will be going straight into QT.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

I am doing Paraguard dips, 1 hour. 8 L and 6 ml. Is this helping in anyway? I see it is listed for all types of infections on Seachems website.

 

[Rea17]

It's possible the fish had ich and succumbed to something else, but still highly suspect. A healthy fish wouldn't get stuck to a filter intake or powerhead, so there was likely something else going on. Ruling out velvet would be my #1 priority at this point. Freshwater dips provide temporary relief if you start to suspect the male is sick as well, and look for chloroquine phosphate if you can't get formalin. Copper also treats velvet, but dwarf angels are very sensitive to copper based medications ime.

That said, it is possible you are dealing with ich and the female happened to die, as these are notoriously sensitive fish. If the male isn't acting reclusive or light sensitive that's a good indicator that it just might be ich. Keep a close eye on him. If it DOES turn out to be ich, +1 to tank transfer method, it's faster and far more effective than hypo.

I haven't used Psraguard so I can't comment on its effectiveness. Ambition recently lost a pair of multibars to velvet, maybe he'll chime in on what he did or didn't observe before he lost them - it may help you determine what to do with the male.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

They both looked extremely healthy and strong since day 1. I have continued to monitor them up until now. What should I look out for? How would I rule velvet out? As mentioned the symptoms are non-existent at this time. I checked the male out now and he looks happy with no spots, heavy breathing, etc. Yeah with regards to copper, I would prefer to not use it as my male is not readily accepting food at this time and would not like to suppress his appetite in anyway. I have heard the same and would not like to loose the male as well.

I will ask my pharmacist about chloroquine phosphate, hopefully I will have more luck with that.

I will need to familizarie myself with the tank transfer method, I haven't done it before but I will definitely give it a go. At this point I am optimistic, he is looking fat, eating live Mysis as he has been all along and swimming normally.

Paraguard is listed to treat all infections but I have been using it all along and now this happened. @Ambition, can you please shed some light on your unfortunate experience with velvet and the loss of your pair?

Another thing that I have read online about these angels is that the way they are collected. Apparently it is not done very sustainably and have read about them looking great and healthy and then just succumbing? Especially in the Indonesian collected specimens. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

 

[anbosu]

Honestly if the male is still alive and looks healthy it probably wasn't velvet.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

I was thinking (hoping) the same. He is in QT now by himself and I dropped the salinity from 1.019 to 1.009 today. He is still looking happy and healthy and a massive bonus is that he is now accepting frozen mysis as well. I will keep the salinity at 1.009 for 4 weeks and then do a reassessment. He currently has no spots on him.

Before I dropped the salinity today I used Paraguard to do a dip, 5 L - 4ml. To provide some relief.

My Venustus will be here Thursday, he will be going into an individual QT tank where I will medicate with Paraguard as a prophylactic to prevent any disease out break. I will then most likely add the Venustus with the Multibar.

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

So things are looking much better for now. The Multibar has no spots on him currently and he is being kept in QT with a salinity of 1.009. He is still readily accepting frozen Mysis / super shrimp and to add I have included Angelixir and GarlicGuard.

I have stopped with the Paraguard dips and treatment now.

Will keep everyone updated on progress.

 

[Rea17]

Thanks for the update, glad to hear you aren't dealing with velvet!

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

Me too! I have set up a few QT tanks now that I will use for every new fish that I acquire. Now just need to get another one.