trigger sump question

[Zacktosterone]

I'm going to be ordering a ruby 36 for my 90 gallon. I plan on having a mixed reef. I will have in total,
2 clowns,
4 blue green chromis,
1 yellow tang,
1 bicolor blenny,
1 carpenter wrasse,
1 royal grammar,
1 mandarin

I want to know if I should increase the size of the sump to 40 inches and give the extra 4 inches to the refugium or leave it. My second question is how do I setup my refugium to be a safe haven for pods or a deep sandbed for microfona (whatever they are). Should I put in a deep sandbed? Miracle mud? Just rock? What's the most beneficial. Thanks in advance.

 

[Zacktosterone]

Bump

 

[ca1ore]

My rule-of-thumb is to get the biggest sump you can fit (and afford). At the worst, extra space goes unused, but if you don't have it you cant use it! Regarding the refugium, a couple of inches of special grade reef sand, a few rocks and a clump of chaeto lit with a 5K LED bulb and you're golden.

 

[Zacktosterone]

My rule-of-thumb is to get the biggest sump you can fit (and afford). At the worst, extra space goes unused, but if you don't have it you cant use it! Regarding the refugium, a couple of inches of special grade reef sand, a few rocks and a clump of chaeto lit with a 5K LED bulb and you're golden.

What's special grade reef sand And should I make it deep? Why a few inches. Should I put worms and pods and stuff in there?

 

[ca1ore]

I don't personally like to run a deep sand bed unless there is a way to easily take it off line, so I run one in a separately plumbed 20 gal tank (thus a remote DSB). Special grade reef sand is slightly coarser than the oolitic stuff, and sold by CaribSea if memory serves.

You certainly can add worms, pods, etc. but if you are using live rock in your system they should develop without intervention.

 

[Zacktosterone]

I don't personally like to run a deep sand bed unless there is a way to easily take it off line, so I run one in a separately plumbed 20 gal tank (thus a remote DSB). Special grade reef sand is slightly coarser than the oolitic stuff, and sold by CaribSea if memory serves.

You certainly can add worms, pods, etc. but if you are using live rock in your system they should develop without intervention.

It was all dry rock. And what purpose does the sand serve then. And why not do a deep sand bed

 

[ca1ore]

I've never setup a tank with dry rock, so someone else will have to chime in.

Reason for some sand is that it is a 'refugium', a place where you can isolate fish that need a bit of TLC, so depending upon your fish preferences, a couple of inches of sand is useful (i.e. wrasses).

DSBs worry me a bit, they can go very wrong, so I just keep it remote. Use the search function.

 

[Zacktosterone]

Thanks ca1ore. Anyone else have some input?

 

[5pacey]

I actually disagree w/the sand in refugium... ... Refugium is not called refugium for the occasional fish TLC, but because its a refuge for the pods to develop before they get sucked in by the return pump and dumped into DT. Sand in the fuge is optional or actually not wanted IMO in because it collects dirt and you can't see that it does and its not easily cleaned (as compared to BB). Rock yes, macro algae by all means yes etc.

As far as the sump goes, it really depends on how much room you have for your filtration (the more the better of course ). Can you just use the sump for sump stuff? Meaning, what I call ReDiCoRe and set up a separate refugium?

Re - Receiving chamber (drain from DT)
Di - Distribution chamber to remote (but not necessarily) filtration like Skimmer, other filters (e.g. chem, biopellet, RDSB, RFuge) and possibly a chiller etc.
Co - Collector chamber (collecting returns from all the remote filtration distributed to by the Di stage.
Re - Return chamber (return pump, sensors, ATO etc)

I am setting up basement filtration so space is not a major problem for me, but if you are setting this all up in the cabinet under the tank then space is an issue and you can only fit so much stuff.

Dry rock part doesn't really make that much difference except that your whole system is going to take longer to develop micro-fauna. It makes sense to seed it from some other place, like getting some sand or LR from LFS and putting it there, but its not required because eventually bacteria and coraline will sneak in w/livestock you buy. And you can certainly put some a pod culture or something in there to get them kick-started especially if you are planning to get a mandarin. For example, you'll get life w/chaeto for sure.

Space

 

[Zacktosterone]

I actually disagree w/the sand in refugium... ... Refugium is not called refugium for the occasional fish TLC, but because its a refuge for the pods to develop before they get sucked in by the return pump and dumped into DT. Sand in the fuge is optional or actually not wanted IMO in because it collects dirt and you can't see that it does and its not easily cleaned (as compared to BB). Rock yes, macro algae by all means yes etc.

As far as the sump goes, it really depends on how much room you have for your filtration (the more the better of course ). Can you just use the sump for sump stuff? Meaning, what I call ReDiCoRe and set up a separate refugium?

Re - Receiving chamber (drain from DT)
Di - Distribution chamber to remote (but not necessarily) filtration like Skimmer, other filters (e.g. chem, biopellet, RDSB, RFuge) and possibly a chiller etc.
Co - Collector chamber (collecting returns from all the remote filtration distributed to by the Di stage.
Re - Return chamber (return pump, sensors, ATO etc)

I am setting up basement filtration so space is not a major problem for me, but if you are setting this all up in the cabinet under the tank then space is an issue and you can only fit so much stuff.

Dry rock part doesn't really make that much difference except that your whole system is going to take longer to develop micro-fauna. It makes sense to seed it from some other place, like getting some sand or LR from LFS and putting it there, but its not required because eventually bacteria and coraline will sneak in w/livestock you buy. And you can certainly put some a pod culture or something in there to get them kick-started especially if you are planning to get a mandarin. For example, you'll get life w/chaeto for sure.

Space

Its all going under the cabinet. No room for an extra tank. So bare bottom with how much live rock?

 

[ca1ore]

I actually disagree w/the sand in refugium... ... Refugium is not called refugium for the occasional fish TLC, but because its a refuge for the pods to develop before they get sucked in by the return pump and dumped into DT. Sand in the fuge is optional or actually not wanted IMO in because it collects dirt and you can't see that it does and its not easily cleaned (as compared to BB).

OK, so if we are going to get all 'technical' about it, a refugium is an environment where any organism can be isolated from predation, harassment, etc. - whether it be a fish, a clam, a coral or the micro-fauna that populate reef rocks. I've been around the hobby long enough to remember when it was principally for fish, but I guess that just means I'm old.

The sand versus no sand debate has been going on for as long as the hobby has been in existence, and each has their proponents and detractors. IME, detritus buildup is not significantly more problematic in a system with sand than it is in a system without, but to each their own. I design settling chambers into my sumps to try to keep as much crud out of the refugium as possible, but have always used sand and see no compelling reason to change.

 

[Zacktosterone]

I'm still at a loss here. How much rock and bare bottom or not

 

[Newms118]

Make sure you specify if you do not want extra external bulkheads if you buy from premium aquatics

Like a fool, I went and ordered the external bulkhead bc I wanted the 1inch to match my drain, not realizing they were standard, and didn't tell them where to put the external, of course they put it in my return section which is utterly useless, had to plug up the 1 inch whole by gluing some PVC caps into the bulkhead

FML

 

[5pacey]

I'm still at a loss here. How much rock and bare bottom or not

... there are no absolutes here. Both (BB or sand) will work... its just shades of gray. As to how much rock... basically as much as you can fit there. Rock's where it all happens. Well that, and chaeto or mangroves etc... but chaeto is more efficient. Basically put as much rock as you have room for, but leave some for chaeto for Nitrate/phosphate export. Having sand in there is not going help, it will make it look more interesting but will be more pain to clean. It may add more "environment" for sand dwelling critters, but do you care about them in a Fuge? Unless you have a DSB (a long term value of which is also debated) sand is generally agreed to only serve a cosmetic role because it tends to collect detritus and thus traps a lot of the gunk you don't really want (but... there will be people who will say that detritus is good because it feeds a certain segment of micro-fauna ). Basically if you want absolutes you won't get them from advice because there are too many points of view. So... the only way to get it is to absorb all views and opinions you can and extrapolate your own mean from all that. Of course that will be bent towards which views and opinions you happen to have read.

Good luck and have fun!

Space

 

[Zacktosterone]

Make sure you specify if you do not want extra external bulkheads if you buy from premium aquatics

Like a fool, I went and ordered the external bulkhead bc I wanted the 1inch to match my drain, not realizing they were standard, and didn't tell them where to put the external, of course they put it in my return section which is utterly useless, had to plug up the 1 inch whole by gluing some PVC caps into the bulkhead

FML

Why didn't you return that? That sucks got any pics?)

 

[Newms118]

^^talkimg about the trigger sumps btw, I have the crystal.

I'm also curious about if it should be bare or like a 1 inch sand bed in the fuge section.

 

[Newms118]

Why didn't you return that? That sucks got any pics?)

no pics, but im just a lazy person . I thought about returning it to premium aquatics but the "return policy" had enough BS in it that i just said whatever i can fix this. I debated gluing some acrylic to patch the whole, but i figured maybe some day if i have more space i can use that whole to connect an additional tank for something else, and just have the flow from the second tank flow into the return in the trigger sump.

 

[Zacktosterone]

no pics, but im just a lazy person . I thought about returning it to premium aquatics but the "return policy" had enough BS in it that i just said whatever i can fix this. I debated gluing some acrylic to patch the whole, but i figured maybe some day if i have more space i can use that whole to connect an additional tank for something else, and just have the flow from the second tank flow into the return in the trigger sump.

That's not that bad of a screw up then

 

[Newms118]

That's not that bad of a screw up then

positive thinking and tremendous laziness go a long way with me