Truly maintenance free tanks

Truly maintenance free tanks

  • YES

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • NO

    Votes: 8 42.1%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

CleanReef

New member
Hello,

Since this is my first post on reefcentral, I'd like to thank you for reading. I have been involved with saltwater tanks on and off for the last 10 years and currently maintain 2 separate systems which have both been established for around 2 years.

When I got back into the hobby around 2 years ago, I invested in an RO filter because I was tired of buying water in 5 gallon buckets. I went about the hobby similar to the way anyone else would. I changed 10-20% of the water in the tanks every week, cleaned the filter media, vacuumed the sand, etc.... basically doing tasks that were part of the hobby. But then something happened...

I bought a fish from a LFS and it happened to have some sort of disease which didnt rear its ugly head for about 2 weeks after getting the fish. I should note that this infection only took its toll on only 1 of my tanks. I initially thought it was ich, but now I think it could have been marine velvet. I guess I'll never really know.

In any case, I decided to treat the inhabitants with hypo salinity and had varying degrees of success. I lost some 75% of my fish in the end, but I dont blame the hypo process on it, I actually blamed my terrible water quality I was getting out of my RO filter. I took the water to a LFS and had them test it. The guy had one of those meters that you can tell the purity of RO water and said it was abnormally high. I had brought a sample of the RO reject water too per request of the LFS and actually figured out that I had been putting reject water in my tanks for over a year for top ups and the establishment of my nano tank (the second tank) while throwing away the good water.... dumb. Terrible news right?

Once I started to replace water in both tanks with pure RO, I noticed that I had significantly less detritus buildup on the sand of the tank. So I started thinking of how I could take care of it without actually vacuuming the sand. Since I lost so many fish in my main tank, I bought a shrimp/goby pair. The shrimp made short work of the sand in my entire tank basically cycling it every day to the point that I no longer saw any detritus at all.

I bought a few other creatures that would help keep the tank and sand clean. About 20 hermit crabs, 4 turbo snails, 4 nasarrius snails (all in my main 55G tank)

Well turn the clock to 10 months later.... and I have yet to do a water change. My levels pH 8.1, NH3/NH4 0ppm, NO2 0ppm, and NO3 0ppm have never varied or changed in the last 10 months, and the tanks consistently look cleaner than they have ever been.

I got so confident in this state my tanks were in, I decided to try a few corals. Up until that point, I only had live rock, multiple rbtas, and fish. While not all corals work in my setup, I'm not convinced it is because of my lack of water changes so much as I believe it has to do with my inexperience with coral keeping in general (lighting, placement, flow, etc)(I lost candy cane frags, a frogspawn (due to pollyp bailout) and birds nest frags) With that being said, I've been able to keep some green pallys and a hairy mushroom (that are both growing rapidly). Some are even changing color (pictured)


I'm sure you can keep other types of corals, but I have not yet had the money to buy anything else.

I posted a forum entry on another site that said I had a maintenance free tank, and I generally got the idea that not many people wanted to hear about it. People get in their ways and spend lots of money on products they think they need and they don't really want to change. They like spending time maintaining their tanks because its part of their weekly routine or whatever. Thats fine by me. The last thing I want to do is sound like I'm bragging about having these tanks. I'm simply pointing out that if you'd like to maintain an aquarium that takes minimal effort after an initial break in period, it can be done.

As of right now and for the last 10 months, the only thing I do to maintain either tank is:

1. Replace evaporated water with RO water (not the reject water anymore..)
2. Feed the fish every 2 days

There is no other trick to it.

Since I've gotten the impression that nobody actually believes I can do this, I'm considering buying a drop cam to monitor my tank at my home. I'll keep a live feed on the tank 24 hours a day for 6 months and post it online. Seeing is believing I guess.





small nano tank (originally set up with reject water by mistake)
https://youtu.be/q6btWcU0Jso

main 55G (originally set up with pure RO water)
https://youtu.be/SfjXBigoZhA

I'd be happy to help anyone trying to do this. I'm not trying to keep it a secret. From what I've searched online I could find nothing like this setup out there.

Thoughts?
 
man....

you DO realize that certain corals are virtually indestructible, right?

For example... there are corallimorphs and zoanthids that will survive conditions that will kill ALL fish.
I don't believe the majority of people think one cannot keep anything alive without water changes.
I do believe the majority of reefkeepers test the boundries of minimal maintenance (ie: what will survive with minimal care/what do I have to do in order to keep this thing alive) and learn from experience.

Keeping an Acropora alive without water changes is a lot more difficult than keeping a Caulastrea alive without water changes :)

Keep on reefing!
 
Hello, Since this is my first post on reefcentral, I'd like to thank you for reading. I have been involved with saltwater tanks on and off for the last 10 years and currently maintain 2 separate systems which have both been established for around 2 years. When I got back into the hobby around 2 years ago, I invested in an RO filter because I was tired of buying water in 5 gallon buckets. I went about the hobby similar to the way anyone else would. I changed 10-20% of the water in the tanks every week, cleaned the filter media, vacuumed the sand, etc.... basically doing tasks that were part of the hobby. But then something happened... I bought a fish from a LFS and it happened to have some sort of disease which didnt rear its ugly head for about 2 weeks after getting the fish. I should note that this infection only took its toll on only 1 of my tanks. I initially thought it was ich, but now I think it could have been marine velvet. I guess I'll never really know. In any case, I decided to treat the inhabitants with hypo salinity and had varying degrees of success. I lost some 75% of my fish in the end, but I dont blame the hypo process on it, I actually blamed my terrible water quality I was getting out of my RO filter. I took the water to a LFS and had them test it. The guy had one of those meters that you can tell the purity of RO water and said it was abnormally high. I had brought a sample of the RO reject water too per request of the LFS and actually figured out that I had been putting reject water in my tanks for over a year for top ups and the establishment of my nano tank (the second tank) while throwing away the good water.... dumb. Terrible news right? Once I started to replace water in both tanks with pure RO, I noticed that I had significantly less detritus buildup on the sand of the tank. So I started thinking of how I could take care of it without actually vacuuming the sand. Since I lost so many fish in my main tank, I bought a shrimp/goby pair. The shrimp made short work of the sand in my entire tank basically cycling it every day to the point that I no longer saw any detritus at all. I bought a few other creatures that would help keep the tank and sand clean. About 20 hermit crabs, 4 turbo snails, 4 nasarrius snails (all in my main 55G tank) Well turn the clock to 10 months later.... and I have yet to do a water change. My levels pH 8.1, NH3/NH4 0ppm, NO2 0ppm, and NO3 0ppm have never varied or changed in the last 10 months, and the tanks consistently look cleaner than they have ever been. I got so confident in this state my tanks were in, I decided to try a few corals. Up until that point, I only had live rock, multiple rbtas, and fish. While not all corals work in my setup, I'm not convinced it is because of my lack of water changes so much as I believe it has to do with my inexperience with coral keeping in general (lighting, placement, flow, etc)(I lost candy cane frags, a frogspawn (due to pollyp bailout) and birds nest frags) With that being said, I've been able to keep some green pallys and a hairy mushroom (that are both growing rapidly). Some are even changing color (pictured) I'm sure you can keep other types of corals, but I have not yet had the money to buy anything else. I posted a forum entry on another site that said I had a maintenance free tank, and I generally got the idea that not many people wanted to hear about it. People get in their ways and spend lots of money on products they think they need and they don't really want to change. They like spending time maintaining their tanks because its part of their weekly routine or whatever. Thats fine by me. The last thing I want to do is sound like I'm bragging about having these tanks. I'm simply pointing out that if you'd like to maintain an aquarium that takes minimal effort after an initial break in period, it can be done. As of right now and for the last 10 months, the only thing I do to maintain either tank is: 1. Replace evaporated water with RO water (not the reject water anymore..) 2. Feed the fish every 2 days There is no other trick to it. Since I've gotten the impression that nobody actually believes I can do this, I'm considering buying a drop cam to monitor my tank at my home. I'll keep a live feed on the tank 24 hours a day for 6 months and post it online. Seeing is believing I guess. https://postimg.org/image/o8tw5j6pd/ https://postimg.org/image/hscnq79ep/ small nano tank (originally set up with reject water by mistake) https://youtu.be/q6btWcU0Jso main 55G (originally set up with pure RO water) https://youtu.be/SfjXBigoZhA I'd be happy to help anyone trying to do this. I'm not trying to keep it a secret. From what I've searched online I could find nothing like this setup out there. Thoughts?


So you proved you can kill sps congrats
 
Thanks

Thanks

All I proved so far is that I don't really know how to care for many different types of coral. Sure, some died off, but the fish are doing really well. Also, I believe everywhere I've read says that Anemones are really picky with their water. How could the water in my tanks be that bad if I've been able to keep a single RBTA that has split 8 times over 2 years (once per tank in the last 10 months) We could take a water sample from your posh tank and one from mine that hasn't been changed in 10 months, and most test kits will not be able to discern the two. I'm certain that some kits will show a difference, but maybe it doesn't matter...

I am not sure, but I get a sense of anger from the last two posts. I'm happy you've been involved with the hobby for 20+ years. Doesn't mean that what I am doing isn't a viable way to keep a reef tank. RO filters didnt exist 20 years ago in the same way they do now. Isn't it possible that I mistakenly figured out something beneficial using modern equipment?

I'll keep the poll up for a few more weeks and then decide on the camera. If you see that I do literally nothing to maintain the looks of the tank, maybe you'll change your mind. There is a certain sense of peace knowing that as long as the power doesn't go out, you have a really good looking tank.

Thanks for the support though! :love1:
 
Isn't it possible that I mistakenly figured out something beneficial using modern equipment?


Probably not, RO Iis the cheapest way to maintain a good tank and they where available 20 years ago, a splitting BTA that is small is not a sign of success
 
I was saying that I think keeping it alive is... But hey, you know best. Weren't you looking for a way to do this in your first post? I thought you'd be excited! Too bad.
 
I was saying that I think keeping it alive is... But hey, you know best. Weren't you looking for a way to do this in your first post?


I don't know SIZNIT, just learning. I thought you'd be excited! Too bad.
Yes but I didn't see you post your system exactly, how do you replenish elements naturally, how are you refilling evaporated water without doing maintenance of some sort? I apologize if I came off angry, I am just a bit skeptical because of lack o info. I am not saying it can't be done in a closed system, or need a degree in chemistry and physics to do it..
 
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Those are really good questions

Those are really good questions

I dont have answers for you. I'd like to say I had the time to spend on figuring out the chemistry part of my tanks, but I dont.

I think at one point of time, I would have had the time and drive to figure that stuff out, but life moves on with all its complexities and makes keeping tanks more difficult. Its sad to see when somebody is holding onto a tank when they simply dont have enough time for it, because you can see the neglect.... In my case, I barely have enough time for it, and any experienced reef passerby would think I spent a whole lot of time taking care of it.

Like I said in the first post, all I have to do to "maintain" the tanks is replace evaporated water with fresh RO and feed the fish.

If you consider that maintenance, then I guess I don't have a maintenance free tank.
 
I dont have answers for you. I'd like to say I had the time to spend on figuring out the chemistry part of my tanks, but I dont. I think at one point of time, I would have had the time and drive to figure that stuff out, but life moves on with all its complexities and makes keeping tanks more difficult. Its sad to see when somebody is holding onto a tank when they simply dont have enough time for it, because you can see the neglect.... In my case, I barely have enough time for it, and any experienced reef passerby would think I spent a whole lot of time taking care of it. Like I said in the first post, all I have to do to "maintain" the tanks is replace evaporated water with fresh RO and feed the fish. If you consider that maintenance, then I guess I don't have a maintenance free tank.



Congratulations on showing me that a neglected tank can survive.
 
What do you mean by no maintenance? Are you just talking water changes and dosing? Are you cleaning pumps? Skimmer? Running UV? Calc Reactor? What's your system set up?

I can buy a new car and run it for quite a while without basic maintenance too and just refilling the gas tank. But at some point things are going to wear out, need to be replaced, etc. The same is with a tank. You can start a tank off right and do almost no maintenance, but if you're not doing any maintenance it's going to go down hill at some point.

I do believe you can do it for a while, just not forever.

I also don't think it's ethical. The point of this hobby isn't to see if you can simply keep a tank alive, but to make it an environment that is beneficial and healthy as possible. That's the true challenge
 
Hey Luckedout.... cool name by the way.

When I say "no maitenance", I mean that besides replacing evaporated water with RO, and feeding my fish every 2 days, I do nothing else to interfere with how the tank operates.

I dipped my Koralia's in some vinegar solution about a year ago to get rid of coraline buildup, but it has been less of a problem since I got on this zero maintenance schedule. I used to use a skimmer, but I had a lower end one, and I found myself always adjusting it. I was going to upgrade to a bubble magus, but after I just turned off my lower end one, I kinda forgot about it since I didnt have visible water quality problems. I do not run UV, a Calcium reactor or anything else.

My system consists of:

55g tank with a built in overflow
25g sump with standard blue bioballs (was going to replace with matrix biomedia, but never got around to it)
a rio return pump from the sump
2 AI prime LEDs
eheim heater
Live rock
live sand

second tank

16 gallon IM Nuvo
1 koralia small circ pump
eheim heater
live rock
live sand

I totally agree with what you are saying regarding ethics. My spouse went to someones home the other day and they had a reef that apparently was so dirty, she couldn't even see inside it... I think that is cruel, just as I think most anyone who cares about life would.

I agree that the point of the hobby is not simply keeping the tank alive. If you ask me, I think my tank is THRIVING now more than it ever has before. Especially when I interfered with regular water changes.

I have more coraline growth, no visible detritus, near perfect / perfect water levels using my cheapo test kits (also the LFS' tell me it is good) than I ever have before, and all I can say is that it is because I don't touch it anymore.

The point of the thread as stated in my original post is "... if you'd like to maintain an aquarium that takes minimal effort after an initial break in period, it can be done." It took work setting it up. It took work planning it out. But the animals now seem to be taking care of themselves. Besides the replacement water from evaporation (which they obviously cant supply themselves) they seem to be doing the rest of the work.

Your analogy about getting a new car and running it for a while might apply to a car, but I've never seen a new car run every day for 10 months without an oil change or tire rotation. The difference here is that that the car can't take care of itself, because it is not alive.

Although my tank doesn't have much in it right now, I will experiment to see how much more I can get away with. I'm only at two fish, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 green zoa colony, 1 hairy mushroom colony, 2 RBTAs, and about 25-35 snails and 20 hermit crabs. I realize that in terms of fish, the load is pretty low. But even a single goldfish in a 55 makes a mess after a while.

Bottom line, if I feel like any of the creatures in the tanks are suffering because of my lack of maitenance, I will either put them in a better tank, or donate the livestock to friends or LFS'.

Thanks for your reply
 
If you are interested in nil water changes there are methods out there but none that I've seen that are truly maintenance free....
 
Yeah well. Do you know that calcium, alkalinity and magnesium are also crucial parameters. What are those readings? I'm struggling to believe you have 0 NO3. What filtration do you use.
 
I'm certain that the tank doesnt have what you would consider to be proper levels of calcium, alk, or mag, but I've never really measured.

I will take a sample of my water to a LFS to have that tested and report the results anyway.

Like I said in the original post, I'm sure that this tank build cannot support every type of coral... Heck it might not even support most types of corals. I am working to find corals it does work well with, and I've been hit or miss so far. One of the motivating factors for selecting a tank that takes no work after setup is because my second nano tank I've mentioned already is sitting on my desk at work. I dont want to spend time maintaining a tank where I work, but I do love the calmness it provides.

Thanks
 
what do you consider to be long term?

what do you consider to be long term?

The first thing necessary for long term success in this hobby is to know what you do not know.


Obviously some reefers are able to keep a tank up and healthy for 20+ years. That is hands-down amazing. But what would you consider a "long term" success of keeping a healthy tank without maintenance?
 
Obviously some reefers are able to keep a tank up and healthy for 20+ years. That is hands-down amazing. But what would you consider a "long term" success of keeping a healthy tank without maintenance?
Keeping a tank running for as long as you can, until you are forced to take it down by outside circumstances ie house move, etc. Or you decide to change direction (we all get bored and make changes) if the tank crashes (depending on the cause) then it's a failure.
 
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