redvipe2010
In Memoriam
God help these people and the animals they keep:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1059552
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1059552
Trying out my new camera
- Thread starter airinhere
- Start date
TheVillageIdiot
New member
Well, it's hard to hear (read) this type of thing... he/she probably doesn't feel like getting ragged on anymore. hopefully he/she makes some changes... responds to the criticism in a positive way.
cschweitzer
New member
Exactly...we have to inform him without trying to make him look foolish...not that anyone has. Information will only be absorbed when being talked to, not lectured or put down. All we can do is really hope that the changes are made and that they're made in time. Constructive rather than destructive is a good way of going about it. Let's help him construct a perfect environment for the livestock that he definitely wants to keep, rather than destruct everything that he has been trying to build over the past few months.
So the next qeustion would be (if you really even want our opinions) what are the most important things in your tank to you? What do you really want to keep? Lets keep it to one type of anem(LTA would be a good choice since they look pretty healthy and the BTA's aren't), one species of clownfish and only one genus of the damoiselle family, either clowns or damsels but not both(best for all of the fish) and not in that quantity. Third, is you mandarin really doing okay in there? Is he eating frozen or only live copes? Is he looking skinny? Usually a mandarin takes special care, care that would be hard to administer in this environment. If he's doing good, no worries.
Gordonious
Active member
I think we start with learning that, "I am a professional" may not be as true as they thought. The first step in understanding the big picture is understanding how much you don't know. Some people might consider me an advanced hobbyist, but I would never call myself a professional or an expert.
We are talking about imitating nature which those people with Dr. in marine biology really know little about considering how much there is to know.
Not making fun of any individual, but I think it's kind of funny when someone works at an LFS for a year and does no back ground research has never read a scientific journal or done any kind of lab work and considers themselves a professional. All they probably are an expert at is sounding like an expert to someone who knows nothing at all.
We are talking about imitating nature which those people with Dr. in marine biology really know little about considering how much there is to know.
Not making fun of any individual, but I think it's kind of funny when someone works at an LFS for a year and does no back ground research has never read a scientific journal or done any kind of lab work and considers themselves a professional. All they probably are an expert at is sounding like an expert to someone who knows nothing at all.
Gordonious
Active member
Be nice now.
airinhere
New member
Hi there. Wow. thanks for the replies. I dont think anyone could be surprised to hear some serious concern about the heavy bioload in the tank. The "Kids dont try this at home, Im a profesional" was a salute to me watching mythbusters last night and being fully aware that this tank has crazy numbers of animals that should not be kept in this condition for extended periods of time. The anems alone will eventually grow to large to fit in the tank, much less when the juvenile fish reach adulthood. I am surprised to find that the fish that I have in there are currently all hosting anems, peacefully swimming around. The mandarin goby eats the numerous copeopods in my tank and the brittle stars stay hidden in the rockwork dvousing the mess from above keeping the tank surprisingly clean. Macroalgae harvesting and protien skimming handle my nutrient export and weekly water changes have created a stable enviroment. I do agree that this is not a viable long term solution for housing this array of animals. My thought is for a 125 gal in the next few months. All the anems are steadily growing, and I disagree on the health of the rbta and gbta. They are each healthy eaters with good coloring. The rbta only extends his tentacles when the powerheads are on and the tentacles are easily 6 inches long. I have found that the LTA are the obvious losers in any physical contact with a bubble nem. That is why they are all a good distance from the rbta and gbta. I am actually interested in keeping a large number of clowns in the final tank as well. Has anyone tried this with 10 or more clowns? and damsels? I know their natural agression is a major issue in small numbers, but like cichlids I have read they can be kept in larger aquaria if there are sufficient numbers of them. Again, I want to thank everyone for their input here and ask only that we keep the posts constructive as everyones input is of interest to me.
redvipe2010
In Memoriam
Have you researched chemical warefare? Have you looked at other RBTAs? Your RBTAs a not doing well. They are loosing the chemical war first. You stated you haven't had an anemone death in almost two months, why do you continue to do this to animals. Have you read any books or articles by Anthony Calfo, Ronald Shimek or Robert Fenner?
Yes, others have tried keeping large amounts of clownfish together, it resulted in death or injury to the point that they had to be removed. 10 or more? I doubt it. Search through RC for this. I don't think it's fair to compare Cichlids to Clownfish.
What type of skimmer are you using?
This is an "experiment" on your part, not a very good one IMO, but to post it on this thread as if it were a sucess is wrong for all the beginners to read, and think they can try it. I do believe your experiment will result in a lot of deaths. You have absolutely nothing to back it up. You have a responsibility to these animals, and I don't think your being responsible.
Also if you read through the threads you will find many questions that you haven't answered yet.
Yes, others have tried keeping large amounts of clownfish together, it resulted in death or injury to the point that they had to be removed. 10 or more? I doubt it. Search through RC for this. I don't think it's fair to compare Cichlids to Clownfish.
What type of skimmer are you using?
This is an "experiment" on your part, not a very good one IMO, but to post it on this thread as if it were a sucess is wrong for all the beginners to read, and think they can try it. I do believe your experiment will result in a lot of deaths. You have absolutely nothing to back it up. You have a responsibility to these animals, and I don't think your being responsible.
Also if you read through the threads you will find many questions that you haven't answered yet.
airinhere
New member
Trying to answer the questions asked...
Yes I do care about my animals.
I am more interested in the LTA than the bubbles, what about the bubbles looks wrong?
I would be happy with the group of ocellaris I have.
yes, mandarin is fat and eating well. Lots of copeopods to eat.
The skimmer is a modified skilter. Took an airpump ran that to a limewood diffuser inside the skimmer tube.
U.V. sterilizer (18w) is ran at night so I dont have to look at it during the day.
Daily maintenance and attention paid to all the animals in here. Weekly 10 gal water changes with ro water/ red sea coral pro salt.
GAC ran in hob filter to help reduce alleopathy.
520W pc lighting with moonlights ran for 12 hours on timer.
2- 250 powerheads on timers (15 min cycle) for wave action.
Yes I do care about my animals.
I am more interested in the LTA than the bubbles, what about the bubbles looks wrong?
I would be happy with the group of ocellaris I have.
yes, mandarin is fat and eating well. Lots of copeopods to eat.
The skimmer is a modified skilter. Took an airpump ran that to a limewood diffuser inside the skimmer tube.
U.V. sterilizer (18w) is ran at night so I dont have to look at it during the day.
Daily maintenance and attention paid to all the animals in here. Weekly 10 gal water changes with ro water/ red sea coral pro salt.
GAC ran in hob filter to help reduce alleopathy.
520W pc lighting with moonlights ran for 12 hours on timer.
2- 250 powerheads on timers (15 min cycle) for wave action.
redvipe2010
In Memoriam
No Kidding?
Happy airinhere = Happy clownfish
Impressive! airinhere likes it = clownfish and anemone like it
Please don't flatter yourself, the only think creepy here is what you are doing to your livestock.
Again, I've asked you to research the threads. You have obviously failed. You can't even read your own. Squirting selcon into an anemones mouth is horrible advise.
I agree with most of the good advice tou have been given. It is plain to see that your tank is not a stable environment yet due to the massive unfavourable micro algae growth on the rocks, sand and glass plus the dinos in the sand bed.
as a rule an airstone powered skimmer will not do for this tank as it will not provide consistant skimming.
The lights dont look great either.
the tank looks abit like all of mine about a week or month into the initial cycle.
you clearly have a lot to learn like i and all on here do and did.
Buy a few books wilkersons is good for old and new hobbists.
do you dive? (scuba) or watch wildlife programs look at the tank you have created and the look at the natural habitats of these fish, you may notice some differances always try to recreate the wild to some extent.
good luck
we have all lost animals in this hobby but try your best not to loose these all in one go.
as a rule an airstone powered skimmer will not do for this tank as it will not provide consistant skimming.
The lights dont look great either.
the tank looks abit like all of mine about a week or month into the initial cycle.
you clearly have a lot to learn like i and all on here do and did.
Buy a few books wilkersons is good for old and new hobbists.
do you dive? (scuba) or watch wildlife programs look at the tank you have created and the look at the natural habitats of these fish, you may notice some differances always try to recreate the wild to some extent.
good luck
we have all lost animals in this hobby but try your best not to loose these all in one go.
airinhere
New member
Believe it or not, I am actually interested in talking with other members who are experienced with anems and clownfish. I have never wanted a FOWLR tank, and have 2 90 gal reefs that I made aragocrete backdrops for and have to wait a few months for them to become alive. The next project I want to undertake is a serious long-term anemone-clownfish tank. I have all the animals to do this and have never heard anything about anyone attempting anything like this. Right now I have to spend much of my time dealing with this tank and I cant get enough of it. I have heard of people that kept large groups of damsels in large (125 gal and up) tanks before with good results. Sadly this is not a mainstream interest. Clowns are just pretty damsels. Why not large groups of them in a larger tank? I have seen lots of pics of several clowns sharing anems in the ocean. And my clowns all have anems that they host. (some host caulerpa as well.) Anyone have any helpful advice? And just saying its impossible without any reason isnt a real answer. I cant start coming up with solutions to the potential pitfals without first getting useful information about what they are. (example: moonlights seem to help keep damsels from getting eaten by anemones at night.)
I think thre point is that what you are currently doing is irresponsible based on your lack of experience/knowledge. and your excess of funds/resources.
You can take the advice and thin the fish and nems out quickly and have a wonderful well balanced tank that you will enjoy more because you will see the fish interacting naturally. The ocellaris are most likely to coexist as a group but if you have more that 1 female and more that 1 mature male there is likely to be a serious long term problem due to space and territory (i.e dead fish due to aggression or unhappy fish that spend their time hiding). juveniles may be tolerated by a dominat pair but no guarentee.
It is your choice and you will realise that people giving good advice were right because they care about the welfare of the animals and the hobby as a whole
You can take the advice and thin the fish and nems out quickly and have a wonderful well balanced tank that you will enjoy more because you will see the fish interacting naturally. The ocellaris are most likely to coexist as a group but if you have more that 1 female and more that 1 mature male there is likely to be a serious long term problem due to space and territory (i.e dead fish due to aggression or unhappy fish that spend their time hiding). juveniles may be tolerated by a dominat pair but no guarentee.
It is your choice and you will realise that people giving good advice were right because they care about the welfare of the animals and the hobby as a whole
airinhere
New member
This I can work with. Thank you adtravels. I agree about the grim prospects for the long term sucess of this current system. The eventual bioload would likely exceed the size of the tank. That being said, I am wanting to design a sustainable system for these animals. I have suffered very few losses. (One clown and my two carpets) This tank has been running for six months. I lost my carpets in early December. A clown jumped out last weekend while I was doing a waterchange and I found him as I put my supplies away. He was still soggy. Nothing else has died. And I do not like to hear others saying I coldly dont care for these animals. I am just interested in trying something that isnt mainstream. There is alarmingly little real info about anems out there. Almost nothing for medical issues. Behaviour is almost completely misunderstood. We dont even know why bubble anems bubble up and extend their tentacles. Alleopathy is a major concern for me. I use GAC and macroalgae to try and suppress it. It seems to work, but I am sure their must be other methods.
And for clowns...
I have read that they seldom travel very far from their birthplace. And also tend to stay within a few feet of their host anems. Ocelaris are on of the more tolerant species I believe. Why would a group that grew up together not be suitable if provided space to spread out and anemones to host. Would it be possible to keep 2 or three pairs of clowns in a larger tank? More? What distance apart would their anems need to be? Would I be able to put other fish with them?
And for clowns...
I have read that they seldom travel very far from their birthplace. And also tend to stay within a few feet of their host anems. Ocelaris are on of the more tolerant species I believe. Why would a group that grew up together not be suitable if provided space to spread out and anemones to host. Would it be possible to keep 2 or three pairs of clowns in a larger tank? More? What distance apart would their anems need to be? Would I be able to put other fish with them?
GSMguy
New member
multiple clown pairs is really difficult and requires tons of space
anemones require more light than sps corals in my opinion they are harder to keep than sps corals they require more light than most corals and exellent water quality
in a 120gal you might get away with two pairs of clowns but two would be max and you would have to be willing take one pair out if the other pair decides they shouldent be there
groups of occelaris after a year or two always end up with one pair and no other fish or a third who gets chased all day
Selcon is an additive not a food
you can have any refsafe fish with anemones
i would ditch the LTA they are really hard to keep and require huge amounts of light one LTA would take over 2/3's of a 55 gallon
i read in the other thread you want to get the jbj viper lights i would reccomend 2x250w mh pendants that way if you upgrade to a bigger tank you can still use those lights i got a really good deal on aquamedic ocean lights the 250 were only a lil more than 150
Groups of damnsels only works because they are cheap to replace they are murderers and i would not own any damnsel they are a pain in tha A
If it was my call and my tank i would keep the BTAs and and the two clowns youlike most
then i would get an aquatinics t5 fixture for the tank and add more powerheads and work on getting rid of that green algea
im glad you are interested in making these animals happy and not experimenting with them
any questions you have feel free to ask and we will all do our best to help you
anemones require more light than sps corals in my opinion they are harder to keep than sps corals they require more light than most corals and exellent water quality
in a 120gal you might get away with two pairs of clowns but two would be max and you would have to be willing take one pair out if the other pair decides they shouldent be there
groups of occelaris after a year or two always end up with one pair and no other fish or a third who gets chased all day
Selcon is an additive not a food
you can have any refsafe fish with anemones
i would ditch the LTA they are really hard to keep and require huge amounts of light one LTA would take over 2/3's of a 55 gallon
i read in the other thread you want to get the jbj viper lights i would reccomend 2x250w mh pendants that way if you upgrade to a bigger tank you can still use those lights i got a really good deal on aquamedic ocean lights the 250 were only a lil more than 150
Groups of damnsels only works because they are cheap to replace they are murderers and i would not own any damnsel they are a pain in tha A
If it was my call and my tank i would keep the BTAs and and the two clowns youlike most
then i would get an aquatinics t5 fixture for the tank and add more powerheads and work on getting rid of that green algea
im glad you are interested in making these animals happy and not experimenting with them
any questions you have feel free to ask and we will all do our best to help you
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