Trying out my new camera

[cschweitzer]

air, I'm really glad to hear that you would be willing to make some changes. I have no personal issues with you, I have no vendetta, and I welcome and enjoy your comments. Personally, I'm very glad that you have stuck through this whole thread(and a little bit of abuse) to actually listen to some of the people's concerns. A lot of people in your situation would have felt attacked and just left; continuing doing whatever it is they were. You have shown that you are willing to change and that you respect the comments of others. If you keep ocellaris from very young in a group, it is possible to keep them together, but you must watch your tank daily to make sure at any signs of aggression that certain ones may need to be pulled. This can and has been done with success. Not saying it is perfect, but it is a huge step in a positive direction. If we could eliminate the other clowns and damsels, this significantly reduces bio-load, resolves many of the tensions in the tank and would help keep stress levels down.

Your LTA's still look healthy, and given proper time, feeding, lighting, flow, and care, you could probably keep these in the tank and have minimal issues of them battling with each other...although this still could easily become an issue later. Since these are the main portion of your tank and since you have said the BTA's are not as important, if you could limit the anem pop to LTA's this will have been another huge step towards a stable, healthy, happy environment for everything in it.

I would, however, recommend against a air stone filter for the above reasons and the fact that the stones will continue to get clogged and reduce the effectiveness of the skimming. A great, a fairly inexpensive choice for a 55G would be an AquaC Remora Pro, with the mag5 upgrade...I have used this and absolutely love its performance and consistency. You can find these for about $100-$150 on reefcentral. That is how I got both of the ones I use and they have been exceptional, doing much better than my Turbofloator and the worst skimmer I've owned, the Prism deluxe...if I get the collection cup filled, it's either clear or took two months...works for circulation and aeration though.

I applaude you for actually making an effort to listen to some of the good comments strewn throughout this thread. It shows that you are a respectful person who had a great idea, but may have made a few mistakes in initiating of said ideas. Let's move this thread toward more productive and resourceful topics and let's help him get a better grasp on his tank.

 

[cschweitzer]

With that many LTA's, you may never have a breeding pair, but it seems like all the oc's would still be able to have a place to call home, even if two did end up pairing but not breeding. Of course every clown has its own attitude.

 

[GSMguy]

if you want to keep the LTA then you need to remove alll bta and get new lights and a new skimmer i would not skimp on the skimmer

 

[cschweitzer]

More than one pair is never a good idea. That being said, clowns do not need to pair and can be very accepting of others, especially if two have claimed dominance and the others(that have grown up with them...very important) have learned their place as juvi's, it is possible. Recommended? Definitely not, but it can and has been done. You just have to keep an eye on them as much as possible to weed out any violence as it begins to form and not wait until the fish is either too stressed or has no other options. Any signs of stress: hiding out, roaming aimlessly, not eating, being bullied, nipped fins, or a genral sullenness(some people can tell, some people can't...it just takes time to know your fish), no home to sleep in at night, etc. you must remove one or the other or both in some cases.

 

[Slakker]

Can be done, has been done, but probably shouldn't be.

The reason that clown harems will tolerate each other in the wild is simple...it's necessary for the survival of those clowns and of the species. Not to mention juveniles have somewhere to RETREAT to if they for some reason lose favor in the harem, there's an entire other reef out there for them to run to. Also, in the wild, if a clown gets killed because of a territory/breeding dispute, it's NATURE...if it happens in your tank, it's irresponsible and cruel.

If you're absolutely dead set on having several pairs of clowns, you're probably going to need about 100 gallons of space per PAIR of clowns...their territory is pretty big, they tend to defend it really viciously, and they NEED SPACE. They are NOT just "pretty damselfish." Damselfish are just "pretty damselfish." Yes, clowns are in the same family as damsels, but that doesn't mean that they behave the same or require the same care.


I'm so glad that I'm bothering to do my research before I start up with this.

 

[redvipe2010]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9375955#post9375955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I'm so glad that I'm bothering to do my research before I start up with this.

And so is your future livestock!

 

[xxseawolf]

wait til those damsels mature(if they live that long), they tend to be very aggressive.

 

[Gordonious]

"U.V. sterilizer (18w) is ran at night so I dont have to look at it during the day. "

What kind of U.V. sterilizer are you using? Every single one I have seen is completely enclosed and I think this is the way they are supposed to be. You shouldn't be able to tell if it is on or off. Am I misunderstanding something?

Jon

 

[xxseawolf]

lol

 

[airinhere]

This is what I was hoping to develop. Reef Central is one of the best places to go to get good information and I knew this would be worthwhile.
U.V. sterilizer is a regular tube with two openings and a pump. About 3 inches of tubing connects the pump and I set the thing balanced on the centerbrace with the pump dangling in the water and the output facing downward. I switch it between the anem tank and my seahorse tank and only put it in at night cause it is an eyesore and I can only afford one unit but need U.V. for both tanks.
Damsels are actually almost ignoring the anems and clowns. I had more agressive behavior in my old electric yellow cichlid tank. Maybe I am just lucky, but I have heard of people keeping large groups with surprisingly good results. Not a popular idea with all the other cool salty fish to choose from, but not a tank of death automatically either. Hope I didnt just jinx myself...
The Ocellaris are acting much like the damsels. But they do host the anems. The other clowns are going to be a problem. The two tomatoes and the two saddlebacks and the clarki are the most agressive animals and they are the animals showing agression. Just charging behavior with no biting or anything. Yet. And oddly, the damsels can swim circles around the clowns and the Ocellaris often dodge charges, but will turn and hold their ground just as often. No major lateral body posturing, just facing head on and not moving. the two clowns stare at each other and then the two just swim nonchalantly in a random direction. None of this is frequent, or more than a few seconds long. My Lawnmower blenny is just as likely as the clowns to charge another fish. With the same results.
The skimmer is an issue I have pondered alot. I found the skilter mod on someones webpage and it worked great. I get plenty of good skimmate about every week or so. nice color and gooey consistency. Wood diffusers do suck though, but are cheap and easy to replace. I am actually leaning more towards a macroalgae based method for nutrient export. I actually have no cyano in the tank. what yall see is good old green hair algae that I am currently allowing to grow along with some caulerpa and some kind of waxy looking plant. The hair algae is easy to remove and grows in little clumps. I started off using it cause I couldnt get caulerpa, and it was already growing in my tank. I am doing the same thing in my seahorse tank above it. With the same skilter mod. Now that I have caulerpa, I am planning to rid my tank of the hair algae, but that will take some time and I dont mind its presence. Kinda like the gree planted tank look with the bright anems poking out. Did I mention I keep this nothing like I do my reef? Algae or caulerpa would make me crazy, but I think it fits with an anem tank.
As far as mixing species of anems, I have read the mainstream info that they are difficult to keep at best and should not be mixed. I have also read that mixed tanks have worked and flourished. I will try to remember the book I saw the LTA/Bubble anem tank in. Something like awesome marine aquariums. Most people cant keep anems alive very long period and I surmise is a major reason to discourage anyone buying more than one. I was shown a link to a great article that reflects my stance and frustration.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen8.html
I am trying the GAC method to combat alleopathy and am open to insights as to what specifically is happening and what is being affected. GAC may or may not be a real solution under careful scrutiny, but without better insight in to what I am trying to curtail, effective treatment will never occur. And I may face an insurmountable issue there, but I hate to quit just cause it might be hard. The reward would be so sweet.
Aquamedic 250 for a bill and a half? Ding. We have a winner.
I agree completely. JBJ was gonna run more than that for 150W.
Lastly, Selcon. I love the stuff. I know its an additive. But as I understand it Selcon has nutritional value. Not much I admit, but it is rich in easily digested HUFAs that the anem could turn into chemical energy for healing. As I understand the anatomy of anems, the internal messentries of an anem are both respiratory and digestive. It literally eats what it is breathing simultaneously. I also feed phytoplankton into my anem tank once a week for that very reason. I have read that carpet anems actually gathered much of their food requirements from this sort of feeding.

Again, I look forward to your replies and remember.
Dont try this at home.

 

[Slakker]

Unbelievable.

 

[GSMguy]

ok those fish need to come out of there i am telling you you will have more deaths.

besides that im really glad you are here to listen just ignore the personal attacks and we can get this tank sorted but please dont keep them all together try something else.

the anemones are all going to die if you dont feed them meaty foods soak the meaty foods in selcon
these fish are not getting along they are just so stressed they dont know what to do you will see the aggression get worse and worse all the while you will be losing anemones and clowns one by one

As for algea as a filtration source Cheato is the only algae you want i have a 20l that is totally filtered by cheato macroalgea and in that tank i have a mandarin that is fat and healthy because of the cheato and fuges. the reason cheato is the only algae you want is that other algeas can go sexual and NUKE the tank

get those clowns out please i hate to harp
oh and tell the guys in the MARS website to lay off the personall attacks

 

[RedSonja]

To give the benefit of the doubt, using Selcon alone for sick/dying 'nems is an interesting idea and I'm not going to pooh-pooh it right off the bat. If you can't get an animal to eat any other way, 'nems can uptake nutrition via the tentacles in very small amounts, such as nitrate via sodium nitrate in very small concentration in the system, probably not directly on the tentacles I'd think. So they can "eat" liquid but meaty is obviously better if they'll take it.

I've personally had good luck thawing Formula 1 cubes in Selcon, mushing it up to a paste, and having 'nems that won't eat anything else take it in pretty well too.

Other than that others have said better than I can, advice on this aquarium, so I'll leave it at that.

-Sonja

 

[airinhere]

Already thinking about which tanks I can move the saddlebacks and tomatoes to. I have a pair of maroons in one of my 90 reefs and have one that is sans clown. Now to actually catch the little buggers. Still dont know which pair I shoule move to the open 90. Maybe take the other pair to a LFS for credit. And the solo clarkii.
Sorry if I sounded like I was feeding my anems selcon alone for extended periods of time. All my guys get silversides and mysid shrimp about every third or fourth day. I place the silversides on their tentacles and watch them eat it or I baste them with mysid. My hairy mushrooms bubble corals and disk corals get the same treatment. Everyone growing like weeds. My disk coral was a rescue and looked horrible when I first got him.
With the caulerpa. I know about the sexual issues with it and do watch for any of the transparent looking leafs that is supposed to fortel the onset of sexual propigation. The eco system miracle mud guide says that it can be prevented from going sexual by keeping 24 hour lighting on it. I am in hopes that my moonlights are enough for the evening cycle. Admittedly, I have only had caulerpa for a month or two so its still highly debatable if this will suffice. But I am using the macro for the exact same reason the miracle mud system is reported to work. Macro removes nuisance particles like phosphates without removing beneficial stuff like phytoplankton. Besides, I actually like the idea of a macroalgae tank. I have two unknown types of red macroalgae growing in my tank as well. My biggest concern is that the different types of macro are reported to use various types of caulerpin toxins against each other and I dont know how that would affect the anems. I could be doing more harm than good by using multiple types.
And thank you for your input.

 

[GSMguy]

the moonlights are not enough Cheato is the way to go i have simple fuges i will post pics for you

 

[airinhere]

thanks gsmguy. redsoja, you touched on something about nitrate absorbtion via sodium nitrate. I was under the impresion that nitrate in any form was dangerous to anems. One of the reasons that live rock filled sumps excell over bioball-wet/dry sumps. both do ammonia and nitrite reduction, but bioballs built up nitrates and liverock reduced nitrates using anerobic functions. Is this wrong? Was this just an example? Please continue.
Also. The use of the Selcon isnt to leave it on the tentacles. I intend it to be absorbed by the messentries of the anems. Usually there is some degree of puckering and/or gaping of the mouth of sick anems. I just leave the selcon floating in the open area. maybe a few drops worth at most. Just have to be careful not to shoot a jet of the stuff into the mouth. That would definetly be catastrophic. If I was careful I could do this without causing any tentacle reaction at all.

 

[redvipe2010]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9383184#post9383184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
oh and tell the guys in the MARS website to lay off the personall attacks

I agree, we are trying to help you take better care of your livestock. It is a HUGE concern of ours.

 

[redvipe2010]

airinhere: Can you post the actual water parameters of your tank, or has it already been done, and I've missed it somewhere.

 

[airinhere]

params were just taken a minute ago and are similar to what I usually get. I am showing an unusual phosphate spike, so I think after my water change I will also replace my phosphate sponge media.
sg 1.023
ph 8.2
dkh 11
ca 420
phos 2.0
nh3 0
no2 <0.3
no3 0
temp 82.6

 

[redvipe2010]

You need to increase your salinity a bit. There is still a debate on what the salinity should be, but I do believe most will agree 1.023 is too low.

Are you using tap water, RO or RO/DI?