Trying to not flood living rm--will this mod work?

[ralphie16]

I have a 125 AGA with megaflow overflows (rated at 600 gph each). Right now I have both overflows draining into a wet/dry filter.

Can I take one of the drains and feed it directly into the input of a 900 gph pump that feeds my skimmer (which empties into the sump)?

The directions for the skimmer say supply a pump rated at 900 gph, which I run fully open.

 

[cdangel0]

I don't think it would work. You'd have your overflow supplying water at 600 gph and a pump sucking 900 gph - I thinik you'll end up with a pump sucking alot of air.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8997617#post8997617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdangel0
I don't think it would work. You'd have your overflow supplying water at 600 gph and a pump sucking 900 gph - I thinik you'll end up with a pump sucking alot of air.

I am not sure but I think the overflow is not supplying water at 600 gph. It is rated that because with an appropriate pump, it is able to have 600 gph pushed through the return piping. This is just my guess so can someone verify how off I am?

The water falling into the overflow would be from gravity so as long as there is water in the display, the overflow will have water falling into it, thus supplying the pump for the skimmer with a constant supply of water.

The water level in the aquarium is kept constant by the sump and it's return pump, which is pumping at the overflow's capacity of 1200 gph.

So since the skimmer is emptying in the the sump, the wet/dry filter is also emptying into that same sump, so it should be the same thing as the two overflows going to the wetdry.

 

[ralphie16]

i hooked it up and its working so far....will draw up a diagram later. half the flow is going to bioballs and the other half to my skimmer right from the overflow. then both empty into sump to be carried back to tank by return pump.

so happy got to have skimmer first in line from overflowe to catch all the protein

 

[ralphie16]

I woke up this morning...no flood and tank still has water in it. Good news!

Last night I tried to experiment and see what would happen if the power went out on one pump, the other pump, or both at the same time. Some very unexpected things happened.

When the system return pump turned off, instead of the sump filling up with water, it drained out the sump while the water level in the display got higher.

When I turned off the skimmer, the water level in the sump remained the same but the water in the display got higher.

One thing that I noticed is the overflow where I was taking the feed from, the water level inside the overflow is usually a couple of inches below the overflow teeth, but now the water is much higher and actually even with the display water. So either I am not sucking hard enough from that overflow or pushing to much water with my return pump.

I work with a bunch of engineers who specialize in hydraulics and plumbing and I will show them the diagram and see what they think.

All I know is that this morning when I saw the skimmate produced overnight, it was a great deal darker then usual. Maybe the direct feed from the overflow is much better then trying to skim after the water makes its way through the bioballs.

 

[dkh0331]

1) Yes skimmers do a better job when being feed directly from an overflow.

2) Drill a couple of very small holes on your return lines right under the normal water level. This will break the siphon that occured when your pump turns off. Every month or so, take a toothpick to the anti-siphon holes to make sure they are clean.

HTH

David

 

[GSMguy]

ditch the bioballs replace with live rock

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9004090#post9004090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
ditch the bioballs replace with live rock

I already have 175 lbs of live rock in the display. I have vey messy eaters and will grow very large so I feel like the wet-dry with bioballs is warranted to keep the ammonia and nitrite down. My nitrate levels have not exceeded 5 as of yet (tank has been up over 6 months now) so I am not worried about the bioballs yet.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9003907#post9003907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dkh0331
1) Yes skimmers do a better job when being feed directly from an overflow.

2) Drill a couple of very small holes on your return lines right under the normal water level. This will break the siphon that occured when your pump turns off. Every month or so, take a toothpick to the anti-siphon holes to make sure they are clean.

HTH

David

The return lines to the tank? I have a siphone-break hole on my drain pipe. Are you suggesting I put a hole on the lines connected to the return pump pushing water back into the display?

 

[dkh0331]

Yep. When you turn off your return pump the water in your tank is back siphoning into your sump. Drilling a couple of holes just below the normal water line will stop this from happening.

 

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9004284#post9004284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dkh0331
Yep. When you turn off your return pump the water in your tank is back siphoning into your sump. Drilling a couple of holes just below the normal water line will stop this from happening.

Is it?
He is saying that when he turns off the pumps, the water level in his main tank goes UP, not down.

 

[dkh0331]

My bad. My mistake.

But skimmers do work better when connected to a drain line.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9003824#post9003824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ralphie16
When the system return pump turned off, instead of the sump filling up with water, it drained out the sump while the water level in the display got higher.

When I turned off the skimmer, the water level in the sump remained the same but the water in the display got higher.

Something is odd here.

1) if the return pump is off, then no water is being pumped to the display, correct? So there is no way for water to move from the sump to the display without a pump unless the sump is above your display. I don't see how a sump that is below the display could push water up without a pump.

2) if the skimmer pump, when off, is limiting the flow of water through the drain of one overflow, then you would very likely see the water in the display rise (as you saw), but you would have to see a concomitant decrease of water in the sump, unless you are creating water out of nothing. If water goes up in one place, then it must come down in the other. Are you adding water to the system from an auto topoff that is keeping the sump at the same level when you cut the power to the skimmer?

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9003824#post9003824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ralphie16
One thing that I noticed is the overflow where I was taking the feed from, the water level inside the overflow is usually a couple of inches below the overflow teeth, but now the water is much higher and actually even with the display water.

I suspect that you are slowly accumulating too much water in the display are are heading toward a spill. It doesn't sound like you changed your return pump, so this means your drain isn't keeping up. If you have an auto topoff, then your sump will look fine in terms of water level, and your display will slowly fill with added topoff until it overflows the tank.

 

[joshuasamuels]

You got any pictures of the plumbing setup?

 

[crumbletop]

Oh, and one other thing. If you are going to direct feed one of the drains to the skimmer, you might try feeding it into a Tee such that one end of the Tee takes the drain water, one end goes to the input on the pump, and the other end is open in the sump. I'd make it a rather large diameter Tee. This way if the pump needs more water than is coming from the drain, it will pull it from the sump. This would likely return your system to its pre-mod dynamics (i.e. the drains and the return would be back to the way they were in terms of flow dynamics).

 

[pjf]

Recirculating Skimmer Setup

Recirculating Skimmer Setup

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8997681#post8997681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ralphie16
I am not sure but I think the overflow is not supplying water at 600 gph. It is rated that because with an appropriate pump, it is able to have 600 gph pushed through the return piping. This is just my guess so can someone verify how off I am?

If the water level in your main tank is up to top portion of the Megaflow grates then you are close to the limiting rate of your overflow.

Use the drain calculator to estimate your flow. The link is on the lower left side of the Reef Central home page.

In the near future, you may want to consider using a recirculating skimmer (Deltec AP600, H&S A110, etc.) that is feed directly from the overflow without a feed pump. Normally, an overflow that feeds a skimmer has a T that diverts excess flow to the sump. The overflow continues to a valve on the skimmer inlet. A stable constant flow is important.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9004601#post9004601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
I suspect that you are slowly accumulating too much water in the display are are heading toward a spill. It doesn't sound like you changed your return pump, so this means your drain isn't keeping up. If you have an auto topoff, then your sump will look fine in terms of water level, and your display will slowly fill with added topoff until it overflows the tank.

The other oveflow that is draining into the sump is still at the correct water level. Will this balance out the system somewhat?

My return pump was reduced by a ball valve about 50% before I started any of this.

Now I have it opened about 75%. Should I open this all the way so its pumping more back to the display?

I am definately going to grab a tee later today but want to keep my tank from not overflowing until then, you know?

also, if the sump remains constant, it will not activate my auto-top off, so then it won't overflow soon right?

 

[crumbletop]

I'd turn off your autotopoff for now.

Also, I would _not_ turn up the return pump flow as that will push more water to the display and will speed up the process of overflow. What you might do is throttle the pump back to 50% again. You may get more noise from your overflows by doing that, but you'll avoid the overflow of the display while you sort things out.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9004692#post9004692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
I'd make it a rather large diameter Tee. This way if the pump needs more water than is coming from the drain, it will pull it from the sump. This would likely return your system to its pre-mod dynamics (i.e. the drains and the return would be back to the way they were in terms of flow dynamics).

It cannot pul it from the sump because the tubes attach to a bulkhead on top of the biotower which is elevated above the water level by a good 20".