Uh oh, did I miscalculate?

[SDguy]

So I recently filled my new 115g with water (just fresh at this point). I have the CL running (sequence hammerhead). The skimmer running (MRC 2 fed by GenX PCX-55HP), and the sump return pump (feeding the tank, the fuge, and eventually, what I thought would be an optional chiller) a panwold 100PX-X. I had a 150W ebo jager laying around, so I added that, set to 80oF. Well, I get home from work today, and decide to check the temp of the water. 85oF :eek1: :eek1: What's up with that....I thought I went through the trouble of all external pumps to avoid heat issues. Ambient room temp was about 73oF. Am I missing something?

I do have a 4" icecap fan installed in a hole in the back of the stand, which was not on....but then again, the front door to the stand wasn't closed either. And this is without the 2 - 250W DE PFO lamps running. I also have another 4" icecap which I will install in another hole in the stand.

But seriously. Are my three EXTERNAL FAN COOLED PUMPS really adding 12oF to my water??? I'm getting nervous about summer here in San Diego with no A/C. Obviously I'll get the chiller, but will that be enough?

Any thought and ideas are welcome. I will be draining out the fresh water when I add the second fan, so now's the time for major changes to be made.

Thanks.

OK wait, now I thought some more. The heater set to 80oF, so the pumps are adding 5oF to the system. Is this normal? Should I just set the heater to 75oF?

 

[Anemone]

A couple of questions - how accurate is your thermometer, and how accurate is the thermostat on your heater? Just because you set your ebo jager at 80 doesn't mean it's only coming on when the water gets below 80....might be coming on at 84.

Kevin

 

[piranhaking]

setting the heater lower wouldnt do anything i wouldnt think The heater runs off of a thermostat. It has no way of knowing if it heated the water or something else did. The first thing i would do is turn the heater down and let everything sit for a while. If you're impatient then you could turn everything off and float some frozen water bottles in the tank to cool it down faster. Once it cools down then run everything else with the heater either off, or set down to about 70 or so to make sure the heater's temp control isnt just inaccurate. I dont know anything about the heat put out by the pumps and stuff, but i would do the simple thing first and make sure the heater's thermostat works. A simpler option would be, if you have a smaller tank sitting around, to put the heater in another tank with the temp set the same and see how hot it gets. If the smaller tank with ONLY the heater running is also 85 instead of 80, then its just the heater dial needing to be turned down. If the smaller tank is only at 80 then you have a heat problem.

edit:: didnt mean to say the same thing as anemone, that post was made while i was in the middle of writing mine.

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6895718#post6895718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anemone
A couple of questions - how accurate is your thermometer, and how accurate is the thermostat on your heater? Just because you set your ebo jager at 80 doesn't mean it's only coming on when the water gets below 80....might be coming on at 84.

Kevin

Well, that's the thing....I'll bring a calibrated thermometer from work tomorrow for exact readings.

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6895768#post6895768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by piranhaking
If you're impatient then you could turn everything off and float some frozen water bottles in the tank to cool it down faster.

I bought this tank Jan 2005 :lol: :lol: . I think I can wait. I turned the heater off. Will test the temp tomorrow morning before I leave for work.

 

[SDguy]

Crap! I woke up this morning. Heater has been off since 5pm last night. Tank is now 87.2oF :furious: . Ambient room temp is 70oF. A bucket of water sitting on the floor is 67oF. Am I really a going to have to throw a year of planning out the window??

I'm thinking turn off all but the sump return pump. Wait for the temp to stabilize. Check temp. Turn on the skimmer pump. Again check stabilized temp. Then finally turn on the CL pump. Check again to figure out which pump is adding the most heat. Do I just accept that most tanks need a heater, mine will just need a chiller instead. I have a neptune jr. so I suppose I can have it shut off the CL pump and halides (assuming they're producing most of the heat) if the water reaches a certain emergency temp so nothing ever gets cooked (from the chiller failing). Ugh, so frustrated. Any thoughts/experiences are welcome.

 

[GregM779]

OK, first unplug the heater, if you don't need it right now eliminate it, it shouldn't be set to 80 anyways more like 75 but I've had heaters stick on do unplug it for now. Those large pumps can add some heat but that seems like a lot. I use t clip-on fans from Walmart above my sump and have 3 fans in my canopy, this lets me get away without a chiller in Florida. Is the top covered are the lights running??

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6899766#post6899766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GregM779
OK, first unplug the heater, if you don't need it right now eliminate it, it shouldn't be set to 80 anyways more like 75 but I've had heaters stick on do unplug it for now. Those large pumps can add some heat but that seems like a lot. I use t clip-on fans from Walmart above my sump and have 3 fans in my canopy, this lets me get away without a chiller in Florida. Is the top covered are the lights running??

Canopy is on my kitchen floor, so the fans (2 - 4") are not running, but neither are the lights. I figured that's a wash. The heater has been unplugged since 5pm yesterday. I placed a large fan blowing into the stand opening on high this morning. We'll see if that brings the temp down I can't imagine what the temp would be with a covered tank with 500W of halides running. Maybe I should keep discus instead

 

[GregM779]

don't say crazy things like that!!
do any of the pumps feel hot to the touch?? see what the fan blowing does today, it my make a bigger difference than you think, you can always put one at the surface of the tank for now until the canopy goes on.

 

[Craig Lambert]

Something is not right here. I have a hard time believing that 3 pumps and no lights could ad 17 degrees to the tank. I think your temp. measurement is incorrect. If not, there must be something wrong with one of those pumps.

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6899969#post6899969 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GregM779
don't say crazy things like that!!
do any of the pumps feel hot to the touch?? see what the fan blowing does today, it my make a bigger difference than you think, you can always put one at the surface of the tank for now until the canopy goes on.

You know, to be honest, they all feel rather warm to the touch. The sequence feels downright hot, as does the genX (though I expected this, feeding a dual becket skimmer). But I have no frame of reference for what is normal. My small tank only has mag's. Even the ones running externally feel only warm to the touch.

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6899987#post6899987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Craig Lambert
Something is not right here. I have a hard time believing that 3 pumps and no lights could ad 17 degrees to the tank. I think your temp. measurement is incorrect. If not, there must be something wrong with one of those pumps.

I'll bring a calibrated thermometer home from work today to confirm the temps.

 

[conda]

I'm running 2 Mag18 pumps in the sump and one Sequence Barracuda for the closed loop. I noticed the Sequence adds 2-3 degrees to the temp when running.

 

[Amphiprion]

To an extent, even the external pumps are water-cooled.

 

[xrunner1234]

Is it open top or do you have glass tops? No evaporative cooling?

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6900446#post6900446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xrunner1234
Is it open top or do you have glass tops? No evaporative cooling?

Open top

 

[brian3]

How was the room temperature 70 and a bucket of water on the floor only at 67? Sounds like something is wrong with the measurements.

 

[imbuggin]

I wouldn't be surprised

I wouldn't be surprised

depending on the humidity in your area I think that amount of temp rise is possible with all those pumps on your small tank. I have 3 little gian mdxq-4 return pumps on my 300 gallon. They are definately warm to the touch and add plenty of heat to the water. If the volume were 150 instead of 330 or so I think 20 degrees would be possible. I also have a bunch of other pumps and about 2000 watts of light so I have other heat issues as well. External pumps are air/water cooled. I also keep a fan on the pumps as well as the water surface. Of course I had to get a huge chiller also, but that is another story.

also fyi...I had fixures made for my lights that would pull all the hot air out of them and shoot it down the A/C returns. That helped a lot!!

 

[phatstanley02]

something is out of whack somewhere. I only run 2 fans in my canopy and i have 500 watts of MH and 440 watts of VHO, 1 tunze 6000, 2 seio 1500s, 1 MJ 600, sedra 5000 from my skimmer, and a poseidon t4 external return pump (known for raising tank temps) and im easily able to keep the temp at 80-81 with no chiller (lights 10-12" off the water). I live in Louisiana the most humid place in the US and my room has an ambient temp of 69-70.

I dont think the gen-x or the panworld pumps even add heat to the water!

 

[SDguy]

Well, looks like I will need more information to solve this problem, since different people have different experiences. So, I will stick to my plan, and determine how much heat each pump is adding.

I guess I will also add the canopy, and get the canopy fans going to get a better idea of the whole system in operation.

And I suppose I will start chiller shopping