DeepThought
New member
Still kind of wondering how I am going to mount the LED lights before I get the leg mount kit. I'll just have to figure it out tomorrow, I guess.
Unsuccessful with SPS corals. :(
- Thread starter DeepThought
- Start date
DeepThought
New member
Thanks all for the help. I guess this thread is dead. I'll keep posting in my build thread and see if I get any responses.
dkeller_nc
New member
Not necessarily, what are you looking for advice on beyond what has already been discussed?
DeepThought
New member
Gfo? Vodka? A way to reduce nitrates and phosphates to levels that others accomplish?
dkeller_nc
New member
Well, here is my method (and it's a bit unconventional: fair warning)
I don't use any GFO, Phosguard, or any other phosphate removing compound.
I don't use GAC unless I've a water-quality emergency (such as a critter like an anemone getting shredded by a powerhead).
I do use carbon dosing in the form of vinegar - but very, very little of it. For my 20 gallon system (approximate water volume: 17 gallons), I use 9 drops of household white vinegar about every 2-3 days when I'm making up settled kalkwasser.
Settled kalkwasser is used for all evaporation makeup. Unlike the 2-part systems, the very high pH of kalkwasser promotes the abiotic precipitation of CaPO4. The rest is removed by heavy skimming.
Finally, other than the Kalkwasser and heavy skimming strategy, I suspect the reason I don't need to use GFO despite heavy feeding is that I was very careful setting up both systems (50 gal & 20 gal) to avoid putting anything in the tank that might leach phosphate. That meant using 100% Indo-Pacific LR from the Marshall Islands (20 gal) and Manado (50 gal). Absolutely no so-called "dry Live Rock", nor man-made rock of any kind.
I don't use any GFO, Phosguard, or any other phosphate removing compound.
I don't use GAC unless I've a water-quality emergency (such as a critter like an anemone getting shredded by a powerhead).
I do use carbon dosing in the form of vinegar - but very, very little of it. For my 20 gallon system (approximate water volume: 17 gallons), I use 9 drops of household white vinegar about every 2-3 days when I'm making up settled kalkwasser.
Settled kalkwasser is used for all evaporation makeup. Unlike the 2-part systems, the very high pH of kalkwasser promotes the abiotic precipitation of CaPO4. The rest is removed by heavy skimming.
Finally, other than the Kalkwasser and heavy skimming strategy, I suspect the reason I don't need to use GFO despite heavy feeding is that I was very careful setting up both systems (50 gal & 20 gal) to avoid putting anything in the tank that might leach phosphate. That meant using 100% Indo-Pacific LR from the Marshall Islands (20 gal) and Manado (50 gal). Absolutely no so-called "dry Live Rock", nor man-made rock of any kind.
dkeller_nc
New member
By the way - I'm assuming you've already read some of the warnings about light-shocking your corals by suddenly switching your lighting from T5 or other fluorescent source to un-dimmed LEDs. If not, you want to read up on it, you can easily kill a lot of corals in a big hurry by putting an LED system on a tank with no way to drastically dim down the fixture (and then ramp it back up over a month or more).
DeepThought
New member
Thanks for the run-down. I've never thought about vinegar dosing. It sounds like it would be "safer" then vodka. The vinegar and kalkwasser combo sounds like a winner and I might read up on it an experiment in the near future. I have dosed kalkwasser in some tanks in the past with a lot of success.
YEs, I have read some information about light shocking corals with a switch. I have a friend on another forum who did the switch with his photon unit and he advised me to start out at 35% max on both channels and increase it up about 10% every two weeks. So far so good.
YEs, I have read some information about light shocking corals with a switch. I have a friend on another forum who did the switch with his photon unit and he advised me to start out at 35% max on both channels and increase it up about 10% every two weeks. So far so good.
DeepThought
New member
Hanna phosphate checkers? I have read some about them and I really like them but I am weary about the cost. How often do you check your phosphate levels?
My sandbed is moving around pretty bad - I don't know what the deal is, but I have mountains in some spots, valleys and bare spots in others. I am using a few strong powerheads and it's blowing everything around. I don't know if I want to keep sand in the tank at this point or not??? I was thinking about putting a 4-6" sandbed in a separate 10g tank that can be taken offline and cleaned once every two years or so. Does that sound like a winner?
My sandbed is moving around pretty bad - I don't know what the deal is, but I have mountains in some spots, valleys and bare spots in others. I am using a few strong powerheads and it's blowing everything around. I don't know if I want to keep sand in the tank at this point or not??? I was thinking about putting a 4-6" sandbed in a separate 10g tank that can be taken offline and cleaned once every two years or so. Does that sound like a winner?
dkeller_nc
New member
Re: The sand: What kind of sand are you using? And what kind of powerhead(s)? In my 50 gal, I used "Fiji Pink" from Carib-Sea, and the particle size worked out to be just right. The particles were small enough to keep uneaten food from dropping down into the spaces between grains, but big enough to prevent being blown around by 2 vortechs.
Speaking of powerheads, what you want in the tank is broad flow. The problem with traditional powerheads like Maxi-Jets is that the total GPH is squeezed through a nozzle that's 1/2" or less in diameter. That creates a "firehose" effect that will re-distribute your substrate (whether you want it re-distributed or not!). Both Tunzes and Vortechs are built to shove their flow through a 1-1/2" diameter nozzle, which considerably drops the velocity while maintaining the flowrate. Koralias are also built this way, and are a less expensive option than the Tunzes or Vortechs.
Regarding the Hanna Checker being expensive. Yes, it's more expensive than an average wet chemistry test with color comparators. A hanna checker set-up for low-range phosphate is actually a wet chemistry test, it just uses a spectrophotometer to read the results, so it's far more accurate and sensitive than our eyesight.
As for expense, you probably don't want to hear what I use to check phosphate - a self-developed wet chemistry test and a $10,000 lab spectrophotometer (that I use, not that I own!). Since my phosphates are consistently below 0.05 ppm, I only test once a month or so.
Speaking of powerheads, what you want in the tank is broad flow. The problem with traditional powerheads like Maxi-Jets is that the total GPH is squeezed through a nozzle that's 1/2" or less in diameter. That creates a "firehose" effect that will re-distribute your substrate (whether you want it re-distributed or not!). Both Tunzes and Vortechs are built to shove their flow through a 1-1/2" diameter nozzle, which considerably drops the velocity while maintaining the flowrate. Koralias are also built this way, and are a less expensive option than the Tunzes or Vortechs.
Regarding the Hanna Checker being expensive. Yes, it's more expensive than an average wet chemistry test with color comparators. A hanna checker set-up for low-range phosphate is actually a wet chemistry test, it just uses a spectrophotometer to read the results, so it's far more accurate and sensitive than our eyesight.
As for expense, you probably don't want to hear what I use to check phosphate - a self-developed wet chemistry test and a $10,000 lab spectrophotometer (that I use, not that I own!). Since my phosphates are consistently below 0.05 ppm, I only test once a month or so.
DeepThought
New member
Just hung my lights.
I think the sand I am using is Caribsea something or other. It's a larger sized grain then the oolite that I have used in the past.
I am using koralias at the moment. Two #3's and one #5 Koralia evolutions. I am experimenting with positioning them better. I took some advice on another thread I made... and changed it up. So far, it's not working. I'm seriously considering siphoning it all out and setting up a 10g fuge (or 40g, I dunno just yet) and keeping sand only in the fuge instead of the display tank.
IS a hanna checker worth it though? It's cool that you have access to such good equipment. We have one at my university that I might be able to use as well.
I think the sand I am using is Caribsea something or other. It's a larger sized grain then the oolite that I have used in the past.
I am using koralias at the moment. Two #3's and one #5 Koralia evolutions. I am experimenting with positioning them better. I took some advice on another thread I made... and changed it up. So far, it's not working. I'm seriously considering siphoning it all out and setting up a 10g fuge (or 40g, I dunno just yet) and keeping sand only in the fuge instead of the display tank.
IS a hanna checker worth it though? It's cool that you have access to such good equipment. We have one at my university that I might be able to use as well.
dkeller_nc
New member
I think most SPS keepers consider Hanna Checkers "worth it". But then again, most SPS keepers and reef tank hobbyists in general are obsessed with knowing as much about their tank and inhabitants as absolutely possible.
If you want a different take on keeping a saltwater reef, read Paul B's threads on the "Reef Discussion" section.
If you want a different take on keeping a saltwater reef, read Paul B's threads on the "Reef Discussion" section.
LoJack
New member
I think most SPS keepers consider Hanna Checkers "worth it". But then again, most SPS keepers and reef tank hobbyists in general are obsessed with knowing as much about their tank and inhabitants as absolutely possible.
If you want a different take on keeping a saltwater reef, read Paul B's threads on the "Reef Discussion" section.
I'm one of the oddballs then. I have Phos, Cal, and ALK Hanna checkers but I still use my ELOS kits because I find them easier and more accurate.
The ALK test with ELOS is literally seconds to do
I find that with the Hanna Checker for calcium, if I do 3 tests I get 3 different results. They'll be close-ish ... but I still like how the ELOS test will test spot on all 3 times.
Note: I do use the Hanna Phos checker ... because its fast and easy lol
DeepThought
New member
Thanks. I might have a Hanna phos checker in the future. Maybe after I get my parameters and everything under control and a few extra SPS in the tank I might have a budget for one soon. Thanks for the info.
LoJack (yea, I've seen the movie too.) Thanks for posting your experience. I am currently using Seachem test kits and find them accurate. Feels like I'm in a lab sometimes. lol.
Does anyone use a kalk stirrer? I think I might have plans for one in the future. For now, I'm thinking about just dosing kalk from an airline tube and 1g bucket. I asked if anyone puts vinegar in their kalkwasser mix and they recommended to start with one tbsp of vinegar to one tbsp of kalk to one gallon of RO/DI water. Can anyone else confirm this formula?
LoJack (yea, I've seen the movie too.) Thanks for posting your experience. I am currently using Seachem test kits and find them accurate. Feels like I'm in a lab sometimes. lol.
Does anyone use a kalk stirrer? I think I might have plans for one in the future. For now, I'm thinking about just dosing kalk from an airline tube and 1g bucket. I asked if anyone puts vinegar in their kalkwasser mix and they recommended to start with one tbsp of vinegar to one tbsp of kalk to one gallon of RO/DI water. Can anyone else confirm this formula?
dkeller_nc
New member
If I'm remembering correctly, you have a 75g tank. One tablespoon of white household vinegar to one gallon of water doesn't sound like an overdose, but personally I'd start off more slowly - perhaps a teaspoon of vinegar per gallon of makeup water.
One thing you'll quickly realize is that lime is very insoluble in water; you will have a quite a bit that doesn't dissolve and settles out on the bottom of the container with 1 tablespoon per gallon.
That's OK, you want a saturated solution. However, and I can't emphasis this more strongly - do not dose the saturated solution directly from the container in which you put the RODI and lime. Instead, pour the saturated liquid off once you mix the lime and water and let it settle for 7 or 8 hours. Use this saturated liquid without the settled lime powder in a drip jug, or through a peristaltic pump or your ATO.
One thing you'll quickly realize is that lime is very insoluble in water; you will have a quite a bit that doesn't dissolve and settles out on the bottom of the container with 1 tablespoon per gallon.
That's OK, you want a saturated solution. However, and I can't emphasis this more strongly - do not dose the saturated solution directly from the container in which you put the RODI and lime. Instead, pour the saturated liquid off once you mix the lime and water and let it settle for 7 or 8 hours. Use this saturated liquid without the settled lime powder in a drip jug, or through a peristaltic pump or your ATO.
DeepThought
New member
Thanks for the quick guide. I have dosed kalk before, quite successfully, but never with vinegar.
So... I have a new light and now I have both my temperature and my salinity under control. What's the next thing that I need to work on? Aquascape? pH control? Dosing schedules?
So... I have a new light and now I have both my temperature and my salinity under control. What's the next thing that I need to work on? Aquascape? pH control? Dosing schedules?
dkeller_nc
New member
Well, generally speaking folks don't worry too much about pH. If you've a pH meter, you will note that the pH swings between about 7.8-7.9 in the early morning before lights come on to as high as 8.4 in the late evening at the very end of the photo cycle.
What's more important is monitoring salinity, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium concentrations and keeping them stable. When I mentioned that I test on a bi-weekly schedule, that was after I "knew" my two tanks, and could reliably calculate the alkalinity and calcium consumption. When my 50 gal was a new setup 3 or 4 months ago, I was testing daily to determine when the water chemistry had settled down and what the tank's consumption would be.
If you have these parameters under control, then I would consider adding some of the hardier SPS species and see how you do.
In summary, this is the short list of what typically matters the most in an SPS tank:
Temperature
Salinity
Light intensity and photoperiod
Flow velocity and distribution
Water changes
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Feeding (such as phytoplankton, "marine snow", etc...)
Nutrient Control (Nitrate, Phosphate)
Algae control
There are other things that are worth checking into as you get the basics down, but the above list is the short one. Most people find that they're reasonably successful if they've got the above under their thumb.
What's more important is monitoring salinity, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium concentrations and keeping them stable. When I mentioned that I test on a bi-weekly schedule, that was after I "knew" my two tanks, and could reliably calculate the alkalinity and calcium consumption. When my 50 gal was a new setup 3 or 4 months ago, I was testing daily to determine when the water chemistry had settled down and what the tank's consumption would be.
If you have these parameters under control, then I would consider adding some of the hardier SPS species and see how you do.
In summary, this is the short list of what typically matters the most in an SPS tank:
Temperature
Salinity
Light intensity and photoperiod
Flow velocity and distribution
Water changes
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Feeding (such as phytoplankton, "marine snow", etc...)
Nutrient Control (Nitrate, Phosphate)
Algae control
There are other things that are worth checking into as you get the basics down, but the above list is the short one. Most people find that they're reasonably successful if they've got the above under their thumb.
DeepThought
New member
ThorEffex - I like the way you think! But, I kinda want to get my tank re-aquascaped and to turn in some of my soft corals before I start adding heavily to the SPS collection. Maybe I can get some LFS credit on my soft corals I can put to some SPS frags. This weekend I am going to take the time to re-aquascape the tank.
Thanks dkeller, I appreciate your expertise. I still want to get a PM1 module just so that I can have some control over my calcium reactor when I fire it up again in the future. For now, it seems like a kalkwasser doseing regimen is right up my alley.
Also, thank you for the list. My temperature is now in check. My salinity will will be coming up soon enough and stabilizing. My LED unit is freakin' sweet and I have it pretty well adjusted according to recommendations on a different forum. I got my powerhead replaced that went out and it's doing well. I also have a spare powerhead I can use... that is, until I can afford to purchase a WP40. My alkalinity and calcium and magnesium stability is something I am working on at the moment with kalk dosing and regular testing. I am not feeding the tank anything at the moment other then fish food. I'll have to go to the fish store and get some phyto or zooplankton of some kind. (any recommendations??) I think I have nutrients and algae under control... but without an accurate phosphate test, I can't say for 100% certain. I just know I have absolutely no algae problems in the display or the sump at the moment, other then some C. racemosa growing - that is starting to slow its growth since I added a phosphate reactor.
Thanks for the rundown. I think I know what problem areas I am having:
1. salinity
2. flow/distribution (I just need to play with it more, I guess.)
3. water changes
4. chemical balancing
5. feeding.
WOW... yeah, a lot more to work on. AT least I haven't killed anything just yet.
I am actually starting to see some improvement in my SPS that I already have. I'm excited. Hey, it's at least something! Right?!
Thanks dkeller, I appreciate your expertise. I still want to get a PM1 module just so that I can have some control over my calcium reactor when I fire it up again in the future. For now, it seems like a kalkwasser doseing regimen is right up my alley.
Also, thank you for the list. My temperature is now in check. My salinity will will be coming up soon enough and stabilizing. My LED unit is freakin' sweet and I have it pretty well adjusted according to recommendations on a different forum. I got my powerhead replaced that went out and it's doing well. I also have a spare powerhead I can use... that is, until I can afford to purchase a WP40.
My alkalinity and calcium and magnesium stability is something I am working on at the moment with kalk dosing and regular testing. I am not feeding the tank anything at the moment other then fish food. I'll have to go to the fish store and get some phyto or zooplankton of some kind. (any recommendations??) I think I have nutrients and algae under control... but without an accurate phosphate test, I can't say for 100% certain. I just know I have absolutely no algae problems in the display or the sump at the moment, other then some C. racemosa growing - that is starting to slow its growth since I added a phosphate reactor. Thanks for the rundown. I think I know what problem areas I am having:
1. salinity
2. flow/distribution (I just need to play with it more, I guess.)
3. water changes
4. chemical balancing
5. feeding.
WOW... yeah, a lot more to work on. AT least I haven't killed anything just yet.
I am actually starting to see some improvement in my SPS that I already have. I'm excited. Hey, it's at least something! Right?!
dkeller_nc
New member
Well, there's a heck of a lot of options out there for feeding. This is my basic thought: I'm suspicious of a "shelf stable" coral food that doesn't require any refrigeration.
So what I use are products from Reed Mariculture (the brand is "Reef Nutrition"). Specifically, I use phytoFeast live every night, and OysterFeast along with the phytoFeast every other night. Occasionally, I will feed the fish and corals some of Reed Mariculture's R.O.E.
I mostly use the R.O.E. because I have a couple of pipefish in my tank, and their main diet is frozen Cyclops. It's never good to feed any animal 100% of one thing, so the R.O.E. is fed to vary their diet (along with live copepods, live brine shrimp and live rotifers).
So what I use are products from Reed Mariculture (the brand is "Reef Nutrition"). Specifically, I use phytoFeast live every night, and OysterFeast along with the phytoFeast every other night. Occasionally, I will feed the fish and corals some of Reed Mariculture's R.O.E.
I mostly use the R.O.E. because I have a couple of pipefish in my tank, and their main diet is frozen Cyclops. It's never good to feed any animal 100% of one thing, so the R.O.E. is fed to vary their diet (along with live copepods, live brine shrimp and live rotifers).
DeepThought
New member
I guess one of the reasons why my skimmer doesnt pull as much as some of yalls is because i dont really ever feed the tank. I guess that will have to change. Its just so expensive. I guess i could culture phyto, but considering that i have only enough time in the day, that would be a stretch. Ill figure something out. I just have to get this weekend done so i can concentrate on the smaller things.
What brands of foods do you feed? How much in what volume?
I have a photon 48 unit now - for anyone reafing that can help - what is a good starting light cycle? Im home mostly in the evenings and night. I dont really get a lot of "home" time during the day except sometimes on a weekend. Can someone suggest a good lighting schedule for the two channels on the photon 48? Right now it is maxing out at 35% intensity at 7pm. How long should the "daylights" be on?
What brands of foods do you feed? How much in what volume?
I have a photon 48 unit now - for anyone reafing that can help - what is a good starting light cycle? Im home mostly in the evenings and night. I dont really get a lot of "home" time during the day except sometimes on a weekend. Can someone suggest a good lighting schedule for the two channels on the photon 48? Right now it is maxing out at 35% intensity at 7pm. How long should the "daylights" be on?
