Upgrading to an M80 ballast...Jim (uncleof6)???

M

mcoomer

Rat Bastard!
I've been following a few recent threads on M80 ballasts (here, here, and here) and I think I've got this figured out but I wanted to run it by the experts to see if I'm on the right path or if I'm one step closer to finally burning the house down.

I have an older PFO M58 ballast (best lighting company ever BTW...RIP) and want to upgrate it to M80. The ballast assembly is the heavy aluminum enclosure with heatsink fins on the exterior. Basically, my plan is to disassemble the ballast, remove the two core and coil assemblies that are there, and install two M80 ballasts. I plan on mounting the cores, caps, and igniters on the heatsink assembly. I will need to run about 3' of wire to reach my fixtures so I think I'm good there as I believe you can go up to 7' from the igniters. Checking around I believe that my best bet for the ballast kit is Hamilton Technology. I work with electricity everyday so I'm not worried about the wiring fundamentals. I'm simply hoping to get feedback on my plan.

I'm also contemplating the addition of a small fan mounted on the outside of the heatsink to blow air across the fins. I don't know if this will be necessary but I'm concerned that the higher current draw will result in more heat and heat is the enemy of all electrical/electronic appliances. Any thoughts on this?

Basically, anything that you folks can think of that I may not have considered is appreciated. I'd like to have my ducks in a row before I do this. Still, I'll probably throw in a "hold my beer and watch this" before I throw the switches for the first time.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Changing from an M58 to an M80 is not really an "upgrade" per se, it is changing from one type of lamp to another type of lamp. I suppose it could be considered an upgrade as the choice of lamps increases, though. However, if the lamp you are using is an ANSI M58 lamp, (single end probe start) the M80 is not the right ballast for it. You have to stick with the M58 ballast.

The M80 ballast is a rather pricey ballast, with the Advance 71A5880 being an average of $300 online-- with a great deal of "aquarium" suppliers being out of stock right now. This is speculation, but am wondering how hamilton is selling an M80 for 99 bucks, or is it really an M138 pulse start ballast, which is a closer match with average selling prices.

With the M80 ballast, Advance says max of 5' from the ignitor to the lamp. The ignitor itself, says 2'. In all cases, it is best to mount the ignitor in the lamp fixture itself, thus eliminating any possible issues with distance. Use a 14 ga SO cord between the ballast and the lamp fixture.

Never hurts to cool a ballast.

Jim
 
Advance is the only one I know of that made the true m-80, HQI style ballast. From what I have heard they have discontinued it. I sure hope someone else makes a M-80 ballast. The m-80 ballast is just about as efficient as any electronic ballast, that is to say it uses just about the same amount of wattage per par generated as any electronic ballast. People percieve the electronic ballast to be some great cost savings, but in truth they are merely underdriving halide lights. So sure they will use less energy, but they will also produce less par. I really don't know what the attraction is to electronic ballasts. If you want the most Par out of halide bulbs, m-80s are the only way to go
 
Electronic ballasts do not underdrive all halide lights, that depends on the individual bulb, they are more efficient for some and vis versa. Take the 175 watt Iwasaki for example, on an electronic ballast it is the pound for pound par champion, and about 15% less effecient on a mag ballast.
 
I have a Hamilton m80 ballast and a bluewave 7 dual m80 ballast and both are true m80 ballasts. When I tried to get an advance m80 ballast from online resources I was told they are no longer available by like 3 of the online sponsors from here also
I opened up both the bluewave and the Hamilton ballasts and they are both m80's but blue wave discontinued the singe m80 ballast for some crazy reason so I had to get 1 Hamilton m80 and a bluewave7 dual ballast box
keep in mind m80 ballasts are designed to run dual ended bulbs and radiums so m80 will overdrive single ended bulbs as they are not designed to run on m80 except for radiums
 
I'm looking to run Radium 20K's so that works for me. Assuming that I can't find the Advanced Lighting ballasts (and for a decent price), what do you think of the Blue Wave 7 dual 250W? Frankly, if it's more cost effective to simply buy a ballast I'd be OK with forgoing the kit and having to wire it up.

Mike
 
That's why I just purchased the bluewave7. I was not cost affective to diy it so I just got a new one from premium Aquatics
so far it's great and seem to bea great ballast
 
Also, if I found some PFO ballasts (part number AQ1-250HQI-120V) could I use these to drive Radiums? I'm thinking that would work as well. Did I mention that I really like PFO gear!?!

Mike
 
As long as they are true m80 ballasts they should be fine but you need to check on that cause alot of co's will label ballasts hqi and they are not m80 ballasts
 
Found a site with Blue Wave 7 and two lamp cords for 201.90 shipped. I can't DIY it any better for that money so I think I'm just going to purchase my next ballast.

Mike
 
I tried to post here yesterday, and due to a cable outage, I could not.

Lets not get used to using the buzz word: "True M80" ballast, as this would imply that there is a "false M80" ballast. The false hood (within the aquarium industry) is the use of the acronym "HQI". There are three distinct magnetic 250 watt Metal Halide ballasts, and they are not really interchangeable. Therefore there is only ONE M80 ballasts, no true or false to it. The other two are the M58 (probe start single end) and the M138 or M153 ballast, pulse start, single or double end. The M80 was designed to cover the Osram Sylvania "HQI" branded 250w lamps, and has been found more suitable for use with the high lamp current european lamps, (though it was NOT designed with those lamps in mind,) than the electronic or the M138 ballasts. There is not an ANSI designation for these european lamps.

Things that are up and coming: Advance, the best ballast produced of the lot, is no longer manufacturing the 71A5880 (M80) ballast, (not just hearsay; its from the horses mouth,) and there is no replacement for it. Sola Ballast is not making an M80 ballast either. Both make the M58 and the M138 or M153. Other than knockoffs of dubious quality, the only manufacturer of M80 ballasts is Osram Sylvania, AFAIK, and according to them, they are not planning on dropping the ballast.

Most "packagers" that have been selling M80 ballasts, have been using Advance M80s (71A5880.) Other than these aftermarket ballasts, being improperly designed (ignitor to lamp distance,) I would expect to see a decline in the quality of these ballasts. Some of the "packaged" "HQI" ballasts, are not M80, but rather M138 or M153, not gunna point fingers. I have seen at least 1 case were the touted ballast was for a high pressure sodium lamp, way wrong.

I can't say anything against the Bluewave 7 ballast, however just looking at it, the ignitor to lamp distance is wrong. Max distance for the ignitor is 5'-- both for the Advance M80 and the Osram Sylvania. If the ignitor is placed in the fixture, this becomes a non issue. If the blue wave is a "dual" ballast using advance M80 ballasts, expect that to go away before long, at least until they find another supplier........... At the price of Advance M80 ballasts, (if you can find one) I can't see how they can get away with the low price they charge for the bluewave.

The best way to get a ballast right, (within the aquarium hobby,) is to build it yourself. And now, the only option is an Osram Sylvania kit: 47273 M250/120/277-KIT. It is an M80 ballast. BUT...........

Grab your socks: http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/nw012104/OSM250.120.277-KIT.htm

Jim
 
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Wow. You weren't kidding on your last statement of your post :) $$$
I opened up my bluewave 7 and my Hamilton and they are m80 ballasts
I also threw my kilowatt on them and are pulling 3amps as opposed to my m138 pulling 1.7 or 1.9 amps, trying to remember but it was one of the 2, not home now to check the draw on the m138
also the m80 ballasts are like twice the size as the m138 I have on my frag tank
so far I have not had any issues with the ignitor being in the ballast box but I hear ya that they should be closer to the lamp but I am not having any issues firing the bulbs so I ain't moving it unless it gives me problems

fixed typos. iPhone has mind of it's own:)
 
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Some other folks are having issues with M80 "packaged" ballasts, firing this lamp, but not that lamp etc.-- generally being picky about what they will and will not strike. I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. But if it breaks, you have one possible solution. If you build one-- short circuit the possible issue, out of the box.

If the Bluewave and hamiltons are 71A5880 ballasts, garb um up while the grabbing is good-- will be no new stock, unless OS.

Jim
 
if i feel energetic tonight i will open them up and check the numbers when the lights go off, i will let you know after i burn my fingers off tonight checking the numbers :)
 
If those Blue Waves turn out to be 71A5880s I think I'll go that route. The 15' lamp cords that are offered may be too long but it would be pretty easy to cut them to length and reterminate the ends for my mogul sockets. I only need about 3' to reach my sockets from my ballast location on the canopy.

Mike
 
What specific lamp are you planning on using? Single end lamps come in two different flavors, and use three different ballasts..........

Jim
 
Right now I'm torn between Ushio, XM, and Giesmann 10K bulbs. I've been obsessing over the numbers on Sanjay's lighting guide and each of those have really good specs running on an M80 ballast. I'd say I'm probably leaning towards the single ended Ushios more than the others though.

Mike
 
The Ushio single ended 10000K lamp is an M58 probe start lamp. The XM single ended 10000K lamp is an M58 probe start lamp. Not sure on the Giesemann 10000K, but would be easy to tell just by looking at it. The only time an M80 ballast should be a part of the converstaion, is when the lamp being used is a pulse start lamp. I approach this from what is correct, obsessing over numbers just confuses the issue. Buy the lamp you want, and use the correct ballast for it. You will have more light than you need.

Jim
 
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