Ventilation Fan...Suggestions Needed

FishDad2

FishDad2

Member
Below is a pic of my setup...it's an old pic, but...

Inside the upper cabinet is a Hamilton retrofit kit with 3 x 250w MH and 4 x 96w PC bulbs. I also have a pair of 4" fans from Radio Shack mounted in there to move air through the cabinet and cool things off...one is mounted against the back wall and pumps hot air out of the cabinet and into the room on the other side of the wall (garage) while the other is mounted on the top of the cabinet and pumps cool air in.

The system seems to work fairly well, although more air flow would be better. Isn't more flow always the answer to your reef questions?

Toward that end, one of the fans is on its last legs and has to be replaced...any suggestions other than replacing it with the same thing?
Radio Shack Fan

The current fans are 4" and move 65cfm. They're relatively quiet, which is important, as I want to keep the noise inside the house to a minimum...and is also why I located the sump, pumps, etc. in the garage behind the tank. So any suggestions should also keep in mind the desire for quiet as well as the need to move a large volume of air.

As an alternative to just replacing the existing fan, I'm also contemplating cutting a second hole through the back wall and pumping air in from the garage instead of from above (inside the house). In all but the Summer months this would supply cooler air to the cabinet...and I could switch back to the fan mounted inside the house in the Summer.

If I make this modification, I could potentially locate both the inbound and outbound fans in the garage, instead of inside the cabinet (house), as I have them today. In doing so, I could either mount the fans directly on the wall inside the garage or connect them to the openings in the wall using some flexible duct material (ex. dryer vent duct) and mount them away from the wall. In either case, I'd move the majority of the fan noise outside of the house...and moving noise outside the living space is never a bad thing!!

So, I'm really looking for either of two possible suggestions:

1. A quiet fan to mount inside the cabinet that moves more air than the one from Radio Shack.

2. A fan that moves way more air but might be a little noisy...to be mounted in the garage.

Your suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

103052Cabinet_1_2005_12_26.jpg
 
i got the ice cap fans for my tank, its in the living room so noise was an issue for me too. They are kinda pricy, but dead silent when running.
 
Just do a search on google, many computer places like SVC.com should have the panaflos for cheap. The 115cfm model is the FBA12G12U1A.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9005292#post9005292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
That's a 45 or so dba fan when running full tilt. I'd personally go with a few much quieter fans, like Vantec Stealths:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999614

This adapter is about $30 cheaper than the radioshack one:
http://www.outpost.com/product/4011642
Click to expand...

question-
would the VANTEC SF12025L Fan plug into the Syntech: PST-1200MF in the links above?

anyone know who many watts the both would use. watt consummation is a major factor in my setup.

thanks and sorry to hijack.
brent
 
I think the fan is a .1 amp fan (100 mA), and yes you can use the stealth with the adapter (it can handle 1200 mA). You'll need to twist some wires together, etc, but it isn't that difficult to do. Not sure of the watts, but it isn't much.
 
Cool...interesting suggestion about using multiple fans.

No problems Brent...the conversation keeps moving along.
 
Does anyone happen to know the dBA rating for the Radio Shack fan...it's not on their web site that I can see but it would be useful to know in making a comparison between the various suggestions being made.

Thanks

Radio Shack Fan
 
The panaflo is only 45 db if you crank it up all the way on the 115cfm model, but the idea behind the adapter is that it keeps it just below that max at 9v... killing most of the noise while still getting 85-100cfms. That way you get something with more cfms than any other, but if you want it dead silent, you can run it at 75% and it still gets more cfms than those Vantecs, Rad Shacks and other crappy fans with ball bearings.
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/pdf/fba12g.pdf

Trust me, the panaflos are the best 120mm fans made: Its the #1 rated computer fan for a reason. Its thicker (1"/38mm thick unlike most) and uses a fluid filled bearing. When you crank up other fans like those Vantecs and Tt smartfans, they 'whine'. Sure, on full speed the FBA12G12U1A might be 45 dBA, and its nice to have it there if you need it, but crank it down to 9v (making it a FBA 12G12M or H) and you have a near silent fan that still does much more than a Vantec. The Vantecs dBA rating is a little conservative as well compared to the panaflos. The panaflo is much quieter in person, as the sound it makes is more of a 'whoosh' than an annoying electronic 'whirr'. I have samples of many 120mm fans for reviews in computer web pages like hardocp and bit-tech. Trust me, the panaflos are king.

http://www.svc.com/fba12g12u.html

If you know you arent going to need something that large, or want to split up the fans anyways, fine... you can still get a better fan than the Vantecs... get the L model... 30bDA (quieter than the Vantec's '28' though) and it still does more cfms... 69.
http://www.svc.com/fba12g12l1bx.html

The fluid filled bearings also resist corrosion better than the open bearings.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9006600#post9006600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
When you crank up other fans like those Vantecs and Tt smartfans, they 'whine'.
Click to expand...

This makes me think you haven't ever heard them. They are double ball bearing, high quality, and silent -- at least on my tank they are ;)
 
hahnmeister, that's interesting about using the adapter to slow them a bit and quite them in the process. Having the extra horse power to kick in if it's needed is cool too.

Do you think the adapter posted by Brent Thomann would do the same trick as the Radio Shack version you posted? It's quite a bit less expensive, so...
http://www.outpost.com/product/4011642

And while we're at it, do you have any experience with the 4" Ice Cap fan?
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IC5113

This one is self-modulating based on a built-in temprature sensor...so it raises or lowers the speed of the fan as the temp inside the cabinet dictates. It also comes with the transformer built in. Just wondering if you have any experience with how it performs and/or holds up over time.

Thanks
 
I have IceCap 4" fan and it's pretty good. Quiet, reliable, etc. The variable speed function also works well as my canopy (4x54w T5s and 2x110w VHOs) heats up. But the IceCap fan is expensive and I'm tempted to try something else in adding another fan to my canopy. Not much difference between any of these, except to point out that the IceCap has some measures against corrosion and should in theory last longer as a result.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9007200#post9007200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
This makes me think you haven't ever heard them. They are double ball bearing, high quality, and silent -- at least on my tank they are ;)
Click to expand...

I think I already said... I OWN ALL OF THEM, including others by evercool, antec, lian-li, asetek, zalman, etc. FWIW, I cant remember off the top of my head, but the Vantec is just a rebadged pabst fan if I remember correctly. There was another member who asked for suggestions in a thread about a month ago. He ended up buying a Vantec and a panaflo... and ended up selling the Vantec after comparing the two FWIW. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=972595&highlight=panaflo

At that, its just a ball-bearing fan... and that isnt as good as FDB/fluid bearing fans. Here's the breakdown from a site that I used to write for...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article690-page2.html

FishDad2, yes, that adapter should work fine. I cant speak for the quality, but I would imagine that the Radshack one is overpriced by a large margin more than its worth. Its just the easiest to find.

The problem with most fans, like those Icecaps, is that they are ball-bearing fans... over time, with the constant exposure to the humidity and salt spray, these corrode and end up dying rather fast, and with a good deal of noise on the way. The fluid filled ones dont suffer from this problem.

Add to this, A larger fan can move more air at the same noise level than a smaller fan, and the panaflo is a thicker fan.
For example, a typical 120x25mm fan spinning at 1,000 rpm can move ~40 cfm. The best quiet 120x25mm fans can do this at <22 dBA@1m. In comparison, an 80x25mm fan has to spin at some 3,000 rpm to achieve the same airflow, and its noise will be a minimum of 30 dBA@1m. Subjectively, the higher pitched tonal aspects of the 80mm fan sound at this speed will make it seem more than twice as loud. In order reach ~22 dBA@1m level, the 80x25mm fan speed has to be reduced to ~1,500 rpm, at which point, the airflow drops to about half of the 120mm fan at 1,000 rpm. This also applies with the thickness... larger blades, more of them, etc, can move more air with less noise.

There are others, but you get the idea...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/section12.html

Another trick that might save you from having to buy a 12v adapter with a voltage controller is to simply wire the fans in series rather than parallel. This way you can place two fans in a series so each one only gets 6v rather than 12v... reducing the speed and noise. I did this once so I could use a 24v adapter with a higher mA rating to run 4 120mm fans at 6v each.

Dont get me wrong, the Vantec Nexus is widely regarded as one of the quietest fans around at full speed, but you have to take into account the cfm/dBA ratio that they are able to do this with. If you speed limit the panaflos in the same way, they do just as well, if not better. The nexus fans were sleeve bearings though, and so they have their own list of problems and longevity issues. The stealths were designed to replace them, with DBB bearings and all, but sacrificed some of the noise traits. Sure, 28dBA isnt bad... the fan is only going 1500rpm (and 53 cfms at a sub-20Pa air-ressure!). If you restricted the panaflo that much, you still get about 65cfms, the same noise or less (the lowest one is rated at 1700rpm at 30dBA and 68.9cfm). If you are considering ducting in any manner, then the pressure spec is important as well. The panaflo's extra thickness helps it keep 32.4Pa at just 1700rpm.

As for temp control, there are ways of doing this, but I prefer just doing this part manually by simply using a timer to turn on the fans when the lights come on. The temp sensors dont always take the temp from the place that is most important. There are some fans, such as the Thermaltake Smartfan (other companies use 'smartfan' as well) that comes with a thermal sensor. The thing is... where do you put it? The temp at the fan? The temp at a bulb? The temp of the water? The ambient air temp in the canopy? Its all relative IMO. I would rather just 'set and forget'.

If you want it though, you can buy add-ons for computers. Logisys and Sunbeam make a 'pyramid' type of controller that works rather well. They even sport LEDs so you could use them as moonlights. http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=337&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=3

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=372524&prodlist=ovsubmit
 
yeah, okay. A fan rated at 45 dba is quieter than a fan rated at 28 dba. I get it ;)

All I can say is the stealths are silent on my system.

Couldn't find where someone switched in that thread you posted. I'm not saying there aren't other quiet fans out there, and I'm not even saying there aren't fans that are quieter than the stealths. All I'm saying is the stealths are silent on my system (and they are rated quiet), and I don't have any heat issues. Others on this forum use stealths as well with nice results....

You started off by offering up a 45 dba fan and a $40 adapter. I just thought there were other, better options to consider than that (and I still do ;)). YMMV.
 
keeperofthefish, thanks for the feedback on the Ice Cap. Given that you've got one and you like it, but at the same time are considering other options, I think I'll consider other options as well.

I think from the thread and looking at the costs involved, I'll likely give the Panaflo that hahnmeister recommended a shot...I found it on Amazon for $12.18 (incl. shipping). And I'll likely go for the adapter that was posted by Brent Thomann...considerably less expensive than the Radio Shack version. I'll get 2 fans and 2 adapters for a little less than what my current Radio Shack fans cost me, and I'll have more powerful and hopefully quieter fans in the end.

We'll see how it goes.

Thanks to all the contributors!

Panaflo Fan on Amazon

Power Adapter on Outpost.com
 
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