vinegar AND vodka dosing

[Electrobes]

Kevin, I think you mis-understand Randy's point. Seachem themselves have claimed that it does, indeed, add Alkalinity to one's tank... they don't dispute that. Since it hasn't been measured, even by Seachem, it is simply unknown how much of it gets added to a tank. Randy's whole point for not adding it is because of that unknown, again something Seachem publicly admits to.

Its fact that it does add Alkalinity to one's tank (Again, Seachem, the maker of this product, admits to this), but unknown how much. Since Randy, personally doesn't want to add an unknown amount of Alk to his tank (he controls this by other means, quantitatively), why in the world would he test a product he doesn't need, worse yet, doesn't want.. given that unknown? He simply stated why he doesn't use that product. He used science to come to the conclusion why he doesn't use it, as he described above. There is no need to go further than that for his reefing needs.

It'd be like getting farted in the face. I already know I don't want that, and I don't need to measure the stink intensity or force of the fart to further prove I don't want it. Okay.. I don't know where THAT example came about. But anyways... hope everyone has a good day!

 

[madadi]

I don't know where that fart comment came from but when I look at your avatar I understood.

 

[Electrobes]

Hahahaha I forgot I had that!!

 

[kevin_austin]

You seem to be a master of straw man arguments. I never claimed that a single observation meant that it doesn't happen.

You claimed, without observation, that "something might happen" because it is "complicated."

Adding sodium chloride to the tank is a very different matter. You've already admitted that you don't know what will happen with Seachem Reef Calcium. So, yes it does require experimentation.

I can certainly start dissecting some of your articles if you like. I took a quick glance at you calcium article. Let me ask you, are all of those sources equally usable by corals? If so, how do you know? If not (or you don't know), why would you do a direct comparison based on concentration and cost?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can certainly start dissecting some of your articles if you like.

Please do. If you detect something that is amiss, I always happy to change my mind about something. That said, I think it unlikely you will find something significant that wasn't true at the time it was published as most of these were reviewed by other reef scientists prior to publication.

I took a quick glance at you calcium article.

Not sure which one you mean. I've written many. Since you mention cost, do you mean this one?

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm


Let me ask you, are all of those sources equally usable by corals?

What sources? You mean calcium supplements? If so, then the answer is a very clear yes, except those where the calcium stays bound to an organic chelator. I can't think of any calcium supplements that fit that description, although Seachem contended in that old thread that the Reef Calcium stays bound to the gluconate. I don't know if that is true, but it suspect it does not. Every other method (and all I compared in my calcium and alkalinity supplement article) provides exactly the same type of calcium (calcium ion) which has equal bioavailability. hence the cost comparision is (or was), IMO, perfectly valid.

You claimed, without observation, that "something might happen" because it is "complicated."

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say something might happen because it was complicated. I said that some amount of alkalinity will be provided and that one cannot tell exactly how much because it is complicated in a way that will vary from tank to tank. That is, as I said, also a reason that simple observation is not adequate to say what will happen on other tanks. If you do not see those as important differences, I suggest you simply go one believing what you have always believed, and disregard information provided by the manufacturer and a reef chemistry expert.


One final note, I see that you have not once actually said what you did and what your observation actually was. Since I provided several ways your possibly correct observation may have led you to an incorrect conclusion, I am skeptical that you actually did something that would have led to the valid conclusion that no alkalinity was provided.

 

[MetroKat]

Randy, I'm happy to see you back on the forums. Now I can stop bothering you on linked in with mundane questions about soluble silica and other stuff.
Good to see you.
-P

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:lol:

Happy Reefing.