Vinegar Dosing Questions, amount where to start etc.

[andyrm66]

So I've got roughly 120 gallons of total water volume, barebottom tan with 2 clowns and 3 cardinals. This tank was setup with new dry rock (reefcleaners dry base rock, very porous) back in October. Within the last month or two I had some skimmer overflows, which I believe lead to an algae bloom of sorts. The rock was covered with a slime/thick biofilm growth. Wasn't really cyano, dinos, or GHA, though there were patches of all of those in different spots all over the tank. The tank walls would grow a red stringy growth, perhaps dinos. Anyway, P04 was at .012 when tested last week before starting GFO. I have yet to test it and see if there has been a decline. My Nitrate kit is many years expired and missing the measuring spoon. Once this growth (excess nutrients) happened a few of my SPS started STN'ing. Before the skimmer overflows, the glass only need cleaned every 2 weeks or so. Then after the overflows it was every few days, it seems to be declining, as in every week there is visible growth.

What I have done to fix the problem thus far is cut way back on feedings, start GFO and carbon reactors, and removed every rock and scrubbed the bio gunk/ sludge off the rock. I also have removed all growth from the walls of the tank as well. I scrubbed the rock Friday night, and have been turkey basting it a few times a day to get the remaining loose waste and detritus into the mechanical filter. I get good skimmer production and have an adequately sized skimmer.

My thinking was, in moving forward in reducing nutrients, I didn't want to have the current growth die-off when the nutrients were reduced, thereby causing more issues so it was better to remove as much bio-matter uptake as I could, along with fixing the root of the problem.

Also, the rock I have is very porous, however, I don't have that much, maybe 30 lbs total. I have 4 large football sized pieces, due to the ascetics I am trying to create in the aquarium. I was looking at adding 8x8x1 ceramic biomedia plate to my sump for an additional area of bacterial growth both for general purpose and another good place for vinegar/bacteria to grow. I don't run any rock or a fuge in my sump "“it is very sterile and clean, I like it that way.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/marinepure-ceramic-biomedia-plate.html

I would like to start vinegar dosing but am wondering where to start, and do I need a Nitrate test kit before I do so? What happens if the kit so Undetectable? Am I not a good candidate for carbon dosing?

It seems 15ml is a safe starting point? Where do I go from here? I read the article in AA but there seems to be some disagreement in using that table. Advise for my situation and goals for a cleaner tank?

Thanks!

 

[dan-in-gr]

Hi, it sounds like you may have had two problems, the first is phosphates and GFO will take care of that, but your nitrate test kit needs to be replaced asap - some of the symptoms sound like very high nitrate levels. Vinegar dosing will do the trick for high nitrates and that is what I use. Our tanks are similar, mine is a 120 with bare bottom and a ton of rocks, my nitrates started to climb to 15 ppm or so and now have them a consistent less than 1 ppm (basically zero), I tried vodka, but stopped with that as I also ran a cal reactor and kept my alk near 10, the sps did not like that, I switched over to vinegar and tok out reactor and keep my alk at 8 to 8.5. My acros are now back to growing nicely again and I have very little algae growth on walls. I also have my two reactors running Brightwell X-port NO3 and PO4, they truly are doing a great job of keeping my nitrates low and phosphate is 0.00.

For vinegar dosing see this article, I started with 15 and one week later did 30ml, and now have it about 45to 50 per day for the past several weeks.
Link Here: http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

 

[alexander_ktn]

As Dan said do get a nitrate test kit (as well as the basic water tests if you don't have them) before you start dosing anything. You might make the situation worse if something else is off. Vinegar/vodka/any carbon source dosing can harm your lifestock if you don't control the reaction of your system. (PO4, NO3, alkalinity, pH are the most important ones imho since they are directly influenced by the improved bacterial growth)

 

[andyrm66]

Thanks for the tips, Ill grab a Nitrate test kit tonight, everything else is covered.

 

[coralsnaked]

IMO for the long run if you are running a sterile sump thrn you could put it to better use w/ a GFO reactor and a bio-pellet resctor w/ the discharge plumbed right to that adequately sized skimmer. But first thing is to test Nitrates to see where you are at.

Merry Skerry

 

[bertoni]

You could start dosing, but I agree that a nitrate test kit might be very useful. It's possible that the tank doesn't have enough live rock to meet the filtration requirements. I don't know whether the ceramic media would be a good substitute or not. A picture and a stocking list might help.

 

[andyrm66]

Just got a new nitrate test kit, undetectable, no color change. I do weekly 10% wc.
As for stocking list, 2 clowns, 3 cardinals. couple crabs handful of corals. Already have GFO and activated carbon reactor in the sump.

I figured the ceramic media wouldn't be a bad idea. With no sand the only anaerobic areas would be deep in the live rock.

I'll post a picture shortly, just got done turkey basting off the rocks. Have been doing it 6+ times a day since scrubbing the rock. Trying to get all the leftovers down into the mechanical filtration.

 

[bertoni]

How often do you clean out the mechanical filtration? Any trapped food will start to decay into dissolved nutrients fairly rapidly. What kind of filtration is this?

 

[andyrm66]

So P04 went from 8ppb to 7ppb, so its still around .021ppm.
Skim has gotten darker in the last few days since cleaning the grudge off the rock, 5 days of skimmate.

 

[andyrm66]

Sorry outside of the tank is a bit dirty. Also on the second pic, you can see some of the stringy stuff that seems to be growing.

Filter socks, somewhere between every few days to a week at the most.

 

[bertoni]

A lot of the trapped detritus might decay in a week. I'd remove the filters or clean them very often, maybe once a day or so. I have never bothered with mechanical filtration, though.

 

[andyrm66]

So at this juncture, with undetectable nitrates, vinegar wouldn't do much as there isn't a problem? Or could it still be beneficial?

 

[bertoni]

It might still help with coral coloration, and theoretically might help with algae and microbial problems. The exact results are impossible to predict, though.

 

[andyrm66]

Thank you, knowing what you know about my system, would you start with carbon dosing? Worth seeing what the results might be as the risk is relatively small?

 

[nynick]

If I were you I would use the RC search function for Dinoflagellates. Then go through the threads and see how many times you can see the words vinegar, vodka and carbon dosing pop up.

Hint: It's a LOT!

There are people that have done dosing very successfully but I think most of them had clearly defined goals and strategies, and usually it involved high nitrates.

 

[bertoni]

I'd add some more live rock at some point, but carbon dosing might be worth trying, too.

 

[andyrm66]

I've started dosing the last 2 nights - 3 ml in 120 total water volume. Water seems clearer perhaps its just all the cleaning Ive been doing on the tank.

 

[andyrm66]

Think I might try the ceramic as opposed to more rock.

Thanks everyone, especially Jonathan!

 

[usmc121581]

I started vinager dosing in November, my trates were 20 ppm and now they are 0. Only issue I am deal with is phosphates because of the vinager dosing.

 

[CNiNi]

Im trying this tomorrow... It seems safe enough and Im at 50ppm nitrates. argh