vitamin c dosing

[marke]

I recently heard that vit c could be a better carbon source than vodka/vinager as it help coral increase color? So a few questions:
1- is vit c just another carbon source or does it have other benefits?
2-can it be dosed with other carbons like vinager/vodka?
3-if so can it be mixed with vinager in one container so as to use one dosing pump
4-is it better to have more than one carbon source so as to have a diversity of different bacteria?
5-if so can I mix vinager,vodka,vit c into one container, all ingredients together? Will they affect each other when mixed? is this better than just vinager? I am presently dosing just vinager, wondering if I should add vitc and vodka.

Thank you in advance for the insight!!

 

[clydog]

hopefully randy will chime in

 

[aleonn]

All great questions that I've never seen asked on here. Hope to read a response from RHF or the other chemistry gurus.

 

[Joshporksandwic]

I went to a swfmas conference a few weeks ago and Murray W. Camp talked about dozing different components into the tanks. He said his favorite so far is vinegar, vodka, and asorbic acid mixed and added as top off. Google him and you'll find his threads and a lot of info on carbon sources. He was very informative ZzzZzz.... Too much science for me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not consider Vitamin C the best choice. I know there are a few highly vocal proponents of it, but I've seen no data to suggest it is desirable. It does other things, not all of which would be good. For example, it ill greatly reduce ORP, which could be a problem if that is how you control ozone. I saw negative effects when I used it as a test.

I do not agree with the folks that think multiple carbon sources are inherently better than one. I prefer just vinegar, but many seem to work. The hypothesis that having a lot of bacteria species does not seem to me to have any evidence supporting it, nor even a logical reason why it would be better than fewer species. And, of course, there is no data that multiple carbon sources causes multiple species.

Vitamin C solutions are often not very stable, so you may need to make them more frequently than other organics. You can mix it with vodka and vinegar if you like.

Here's a thread with a lot of info:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802009

 

[marke]

Thanks Randy. It looks like vit c didnt work for you due to ozone issues. That thread is 2 years old? Has anyone experimented/tried working with vit c that can share their results good or bad?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've not seen people recently posting things with vitamin C that wouldn't have happened with other carbon sources, but experimenting with it is a fine plan if you think it could be more desirable.

 

[Atomikk]

I dose both Vinegar and Vit C, but have a day/night schedule.

Vinegar during the peak hours of the tank (while photosynthesis is in high gear), and Vit C at night (keeping in mind that vit c loses potency when exposed to light).

Now the question for you Randy would be, would you know how quickly vit c is metabolized within marine organisms? I feel that this is where the benefits are with vit c (not so much as a great source of carbon).

 

[snorvich]

Why would vitamin C be metabolized?

 

[disc1]

Why would vitamin C be metabolized?

That's what we want right. Assimilation with phos and nitrogen so we can pull those out. We want the bacteria to eat the carbon source. So Of course vitamin c will be metabolized.


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[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know whether most reef creatures take up vitamin C from the water, and if they do, how fast any individual might metabolize it. I have seen some uptake studies on acetate (vinegar), however.

 

[marke]

I got hold of some pharmaceutical grade Absorbic acid aka vit c. My intent is to mix it in my vinager liter container so as to use the same dosing pump. I don't know how much to add to the vinager. So I mixed 1tspn with 3oz and it desolved well. When I reached 2tsp it left settlement on the bottom. Ie would. Not desolve. So I need help determining how much to use. I have not considered the loss in light issue as I dose 1mm/hr 24/7. Should I be concerned? Can it produce any negative effect or just reduce the maybe positive? Any suggestion with my experiment would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Atomikk]

I do not know whether most reef creatures take up vitamin C from the water, and if they do, how fast any individual might metabolize it. I have seen some uptake studies on acetate (vinegar), however.

How long did it take, in your experience say with your own tank, to get the bacteria (via vinegar) to a size where you can notice the decrease in nitrate or phosphate levels?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not track nitrate or phosphate so I couldn't say, but I was swapping export methods, and so the nutrients may have been reasonably low to begin with.

 

[dublo8]

I have been dosing Vit c for over 2 years and love it. I tried vinegar and wasn't too impressed with my personal results. I dosed vinegar with my ato/kalk reservoir. I'm not going to say vit c will work wonders for you but it did for me. Look for the big VC thread or search out the username pufferpunk for some more info on it. Good luck.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What did it do that you didn't see with vinegar?

 

[dublo8]

What did it do that you didn't see with vinegar?

With VC I noticed increased water clarity, zoa's were much brighter and SPS did pretty well also. I do want to point out that not everybody has had the same results but thats just par for the course. I didn't notice the same results as dramatically with the vinegar. I feel like the vinegar didn't do very much in my situation. I began using vinegar since I am topping off with kalk water and needed to saturate it a little more due to growth of SPS so I switched to full on vinegar and dropped the VC over the course of about 2 weeks as I thought it would be easier and less hands on dosing. I will note that no other changes were made during this time and all levels were consistent throughout this period.

I have read many many threads on both and just decided that either one would work in their respective way but I decided to stick with my vinegar and lime water solution and went backwards, lowering my vinegar usage and back to VC.

I'm tankless right now (got a small holding tank filled with rock and coral due to a move)but once I get things back up and running I'll try and get some before and after shots in a new thread for some of you to gander at.

I'm definitely a fan of carbon dosing and I'm not comfortable enough with bio pellets and their spotty history to go that route. Vodka wasn't too bad but I had a cyano issue with it in the past so I weened my tank off the bottle and switched to the VC back in early 2010 and never looked back.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

How much vinegar were you using relative to how much VC?

 

[dublo8]

Thanks.

How much vinegar were you using relative to how much VC?

I honestly don't remember. I'll have to find my old log book. I dose 1/4 tsp. twice daily of VC. It's enough to give me the results I want. I saw no neg or pos results from increased amounts. That's just my personal experience though. Others vary considerably in how much they use.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK. The reason I asked was that some folks might not realize that you'd probably need more than 20 mL (4 teaspoons) of vinegar to give a similar organic carbon dose, so I just wanted to know if you were comparing comparable amounts.