Vodka Dosing, White Flakes, Strange Smell ... Help ?

[jdg]

I've been doing Vodka for quite some time and I would get the occasional bloom which would cloud the water for a day or so and clear up within a few hours. This weekend, however, was a little different. While the cloud cleared up as normal, I noticed parts of the rocks turning white. Upon closer inspection, it appeared to be a white flake-like substance. What is really odd is that the tank has started to smell a bit like stagnant seawater and it seems to be getting worse. Flow is great, live stock is acting normal, and the skimmer is producing normal skimmate.

Other than the white flake layer on the rocks, and the seemingly worsening odor, things are fine: Ammonia, Nitrite both 0, Nitrate < 10, PO4 non-detectable, CA 450 and ALK is 10. PH is 8.2. SG is 1.025.

Any ideas as to what would be the cause of the flake and/or smell?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The white flakes may be bacteria, or it may be calcium carbonate precipitate if you overdosed alkalinity additives.

Where do you dose the vodka in your system? Do you have a refugium?

 

[jdg]

The white flakes may be bacteria, or it may be calcium carbonate precipitate if you overdosed alkalinity additives.

Where do you dose the vodka in your system? Do you have a refugium?

It doesn't really look like CaCO3 (I have done that before), not to mention I haven't dosed recently.

I dose the Vodka in the main display using a syringe, and I do have a fuge as well. Could it be too much Vodka causing a bacterial bloom on the rocks themselves?

 

[Noypi]

U should dose vodka in your sump not in the display. how much do u dose btw and what size tank?

 

[125G Reefer]

Never seen it bloom on the rocks themselves. White on the rocks, yes I get that myself. But its on the rock, you can't get it off. And how much exaclty are we talking about as far as dosing is concerned?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd run GAC if you do not now. It makes a good place for bacteria to grow, and will help reduce odors.

 

[jdg]

U should dose vodka in your sump not in the display. how much do u dose btw and what size tank?

Not that I don't appreciate the suggestion, but why is the sump a better place than the display?

I'm dosing 1.8ml maintenance over the last couple of months; system volume is 250g.

 

[jdg]

Never seen it bloom on the rocks themselves. White on the rocks, yes I get that myself. But its on the rock, you can't get it off. And how much exaclty are we talking about as far as dosing is concerned?

This flakes off if you tap on it with something -- like a kent algae scraper. It almost looks like tiny pieces of styrofoam when it breaks off.

I'm dosing 1.8ml on 250g maintenance over the last several months.

 

[jdg]

I'd run GAC if you do not now. It makes a good place for bacteria to grow, and will help reduce odors.

That's one of the things that really has me boggled; I've been running GAC forever changing it out every quarter. Last change was the week of 4/1 so I'm not really due for another month and a half and it's not like I just changed it and shook something loose either.

That said, I hooked in another canister to see if that would help (in addition to what I'm already running). The odor appeared to continue to get worse and has started to improve -- but i don't really know if that is a function of time given or the additional GAC.

 

[Bilk]

Not that I don't appreciate the suggestion, but why is the sump a better place than the display?

I'm dosing 1.8ml maintenance over the last couple of months; system volume is 250g.

I dose everything in the sump. It mixes well before getting into the display where any concentration of something foreign could cause an issue to livestock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not that I don't appreciate the suggestion, but why is the sump a better place than the display?

I dose into rock filled refugia in the hopes that more of the organic carbon will be taken up there and havwe bacteria grow there than by anemones and corals and such (or bacteria) in the display tank.

 

[jdg]

Thanks Bilk and Randy! That makes perfect sense!

I will start dosing the Vodka in the sump/fuge.

Thinking about it, Vodka was the only thing I dosed in the main display. Everything else is hooked into the fuge/sump. For some reason, I thought I had remembered reading that the display was the place for vodka dosing -- maybe there was a 'DO NOT' in there somewhere that my brain failed to acknowledge.

The odor is improving, and the white flake seems to be going away. The water is still a bit cloudy though.

The skimmer today pulled out some of the nastiest skimmate I have ever seen. It looked completely black, and when dumped it was as if someone dropped a black and green marker into the water. Parameters are all still normal. I'll drop by the LFS tomorrow and get a third party water test to make sure my kits aren't off (though I did that about a month ago and everything was in-line).

 

[tmz]

1.8 ml isn't very much for 250 gallons. I have been dosing 34 ml vokda equivalents(mix of vodka an vinegar ) daily for two years. I dose in the sump and into a cryptic area. The fact that you were getting repetitive clouding and now the flakes at a relatively low dose is perplexing. Since you've been skimming and running gac, organic carbon buildup at that low dose seems unlikely. Perhaps something else is causing them.

 

[jdg]

1.8 ml isn't very much for 250 gallons. I have been dosing 34 ml vokda equivalents(mix of vodka an vinegar ) daily for two years. I dose in the sump and into a cryptic area. The fact that you were getting repetitive clouding and now the flakes at a relatively low dose is perplexing. Since you've been skimming and running gac, organic carbon buildup at that low dose seems unlikely. Perhaps something else is causing them.

I was surprised at the low dose myself, but it keeps NO3 and PO4 at bay and I certainly didn't want to overdose. I have thought about cutting it in half and monitoring to see if levels increase, but it's just such a small amount across such a large water volume that I just don't see how it can be accumulating.

Water is still cloudy today, I can see through the tank short-side, but I still can't see through it the long-way. The odor has improved greatly as well, though it still isn't perfect.

I am totally, absolutely, and completely confused. :hmm5:

 

[MattAndKim]

I dosed for over a year at 30x that concentration without any deleterious effect. I can hardly believe you don't have some significant problem with your tank chemistry unrelated to carbon dosing. Sure your test kits are good?

 

[jdg]

I dosed for over a year at 30x that concentration without any deleterious effect. I can hardly believe you don't have some significant problem with your tank chemistry unrelated to carbon dosing. Sure your test kits are good?

Yup, I was concerned about this as well. I usually visit the LFS once a month or so for the sole purpose of getting my water tested just to make sure my test kits are inline.

I suppose it's possible their kits and my kits are off, but I would think that to be quite unlikely.

It has been a truly strange experience though. The smell was horrific at one point and while that has improved significantly, the tank is still cloudy. The skimmer is producing more 'green tea' instead of 'black sharpie', so I guess that is a plus as well. All livestock is accounted for and I am 100% certain it is not a DSB crash.

 

[tmz]

I should have noted the 34 ml is for 550 gallons.

The smell could be hydrogen sulfide, smells like sewer gas, from relatively stagnant water with some organic material in it. Usually from disturbed anoxic areas in a sand bed or around rocks buried in the sand. It is toxic.

 

[jdg]

I should have noted the 34 ml is for 550 gallons.

The smell could be hydrogen sulfide, smells like sewer gas, from relatively stagnant water with some organic material in it. Usually from disturbed anoxic areas in a sand bed or around rocks buried in the sand. It is toxic.

Still, you have a little bit more than 2x my water volume (250g here), so that would put me at 17ml with a similar load.

It did actually smell like sewer gas at one point, it was horrible; though, I know 100% that it wasn't coming from my sand bed.

And the water wasn't stagnant, I have roughly 9000gph of flow, sooo ... I'm madly lost as to the cause.

btw, when you toxic, I assume you mean to the livestock?

 

[tmz]

Yes, and to you.You could still get anoxic areas of low flow in the substrate or other spots even with high water movement in the tank.

 

[jdg]

Yes, and to you.You could still get anoxic areas of low flow in the substrate or other spots even with high water movement in the tank.

I figured concentration to be toxic to me would have to be pretty high. Can the tank produce those levels?

If there were anoxic areas, their total volume / surface area would be minimal in my setup. It couldn't have come from sand/substrate, so the only place they could build up would be under the rocks themselves -- and again, plenty of forced flow.

That said, is it something that could just happen one day out of no where?