saltwaterpicaso
New member
ive been dosing vinegar for about two weeks now. parameters are getting better but still have cyano. corals are doing great except my xenia is shriveled up and not looking good has anyone else had this happen
vodka dosing
- Thread starter saltwaterpicaso
- Start date
My red sea xenia stopped growing when nutrients were lowered with vodka and vinegar dosing. It lived but didn't grow. But I amped up the dose slowly.
Six or seven years ago ,it crashed badly along with colonies of Woods anthelia polyps when I put in a new more effective skimmer. Much of it recovered afte a month or so .
Xenia seems to favor absorbtion of some type of organic in the water that is removed by skimming or alterd by the bacteria associated with organic carbon dosing. . Mine thrives and proliferates in an off system tank running on only a canister filter with no organic carbon dosing.
I think the organic dosing changes the organization of orgnanic materials in the tank and must take what xenia likes off the menu. Perhaps the extra bacteria take what it likes and in turn it can't eat the bacteria like many other corals do.
Xenia despite it's pulsing has no observable feeding behavior for particlulate matter. So, it is thought to rely on absorbtion to meet it's heterotrophic needs, ie , it's need for supplemental organic carbon to supplement what it gets from photosynthesis.
Six or seven years ago ,it crashed badly along with colonies of Woods anthelia polyps when I put in a new more effective skimmer. Much of it recovered afte a month or so .
Xenia seems to favor absorbtion of some type of organic in the water that is removed by skimming or alterd by the bacteria associated with organic carbon dosing. . Mine thrives and proliferates in an off system tank running on only a canister filter with no organic carbon dosing.
I think the organic dosing changes the organization of orgnanic materials in the tank and must take what xenia likes off the menu. Perhaps the extra bacteria take what it likes and in turn it can't eat the bacteria like many other corals do.
Xenia despite it's pulsing has no observable feeding behavior for particlulate matter. So, it is thought to rely on absorbtion to meet it's heterotrophic needs, ie , it's need for supplemental organic carbon to supplement what it gets from photosynthesis.
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saltwaterpicaso
New member
im dosing to get rid of cyano wich im not sure if its working
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
What's your dosage rate per day per how many gallons? & What was your starting point dosage? Dosing will be improving (as you noticed) your parameters.
It's going to increase daily bacteria cultures in the system (which take up some nutrients) enabling a greater amount of them(bacteria) to be skimmed by your skimmer. With their uptake by the skimmer they take nitrates and some phosphate/other organics with them. Removing more from the system. The right dosage which must be tracked by trial is one key...
Another thing: your dosing may be helping the cyano too. Causing the bacteria to grow in an undesirable location(DT) and form.
Don't know how long you've been doing it.
Try an increased water change or schedule of changes and in doing so, also try to vacuum out what visible cyano there is. (this vacuuming is not going to get rid of it. but will help reduce some of it)
Dosing works very well for me in keeping my Nitrates down to 0 in a heavy fish stocked DT. I get twice as much skimate doing it as opposed to not. Battling Cyano even as a separate issue can be complicated though. As it differs tank to tank. I've never had any yet in my current system. But I have had it in the past in other tanks. Without using any chemicals- my best bet that worked was increased water changes, vacuuming, as heavy skimming as possible and use of various products that also help remove various nutrients that can feed it. Usually in reactors. Like various Dinitrator media & Phosphate/silicate removal. All of it helps. You need to understand your personal bio load though to know how you can help a decrease in the cyano. It can be tricky and take a while to get rid of it.
I understand a lot of things in my own practices that are not always easy to explain. I think there are other people here, TMZ being one that have a greater expertise in not only their proper utilization but explanation of such as well. Your problem is definitely curable though. Don't give up.
It's going to increase daily bacteria cultures in the system (which take up some nutrients) enabling a greater amount of them(bacteria) to be skimmed by your skimmer. With their uptake by the skimmer they take nitrates and some phosphate/other organics with them. Removing more from the system. The right dosage which must be tracked by trial is one key...
Another thing: your dosing may be helping the cyano too. Causing the bacteria to grow in an undesirable location(DT) and form.
Don't know how long you've been doing it.
Try an increased water change or schedule of changes and in doing so, also try to vacuum out what visible cyano there is. (this vacuuming is not going to get rid of it. but will help reduce some of it)
Dosing works very well for me in keeping my Nitrates down to 0 in a heavy fish stocked DT. I get twice as much skimate doing it as opposed to not. Battling Cyano even as a separate issue can be complicated though. As it differs tank to tank. I've never had any yet in my current system. But I have had it in the past in other tanks. Without using any chemicals- my best bet that worked was increased water changes, vacuuming, as heavy skimming as possible and use of various products that also help remove various nutrients that can feed it. Usually in reactors. Like various Dinitrator media & Phosphate/silicate removal. All of it helps. You need to understand your personal bio load though to know how you can help a decrease in the cyano. It can be tricky and take a while to get rid of it.
I understand a lot of things in my own practices that are not always easy to explain. I think there are other people here, TMZ being one that have a greater expertise in not only their proper utilization but explanation of such as well. Your problem is definitely curable though. Don't give up.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
if you want Xenia in your reef aquarium I cannot fathom why you'd want to dose vinegar. Use the Xenia as a "scrubber". There seems to be a demand for it around here so you could harvest it (for nutrient export) and sell it (for money). Or give it away 
skidoctor
New member
I used to dose vinegar to reduce my nitrates. then I had a battle with cyano. It occured to me- through researching on RC- that I was actually helping the cyano grow. Since I stopped dosing, and added zenia and gorgonia, my cyano problem has all but disappeared. PO4 is at 0- I think my fuge is finally working. Nitrates are below 10, but I;m ok with that since my tank is mainly softies and LPS.
+1 for Gary. It seems that the combo of a fuge with macros, xenia, and gorgonia has solved my nutrient issues.
+1 for Gary. It seems that the combo of a fuge with macros, xenia, and gorgonia has solved my nutrient issues.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
All these above are excellent working points. It harkens back to what type of tank to keep as your choice.
Dosing as well as heavy skimming works especially for ultra nutrient free and intermediate tanks especially employing SPS or a mix of corals of different types(some LPS).
I've kept zenia in different types of tanks and found that though manageable in different set ups- Zenia, various other softies and even many LPS appreciate systems with higher nutrient content. Light to no skimming works better in some applications as such. I also think based on PE that fuges are more effective in these applications. Depending on the majority of certain corals being kept. My zenia was more successful with higher nutrient levels. Where as my tanks that demanded heavier skimming and lower nutrient levels to keep certain corals alive- were essential for sps or mixed sps/lps tanks.
I think a softie or certain LPS/Softie mixed tanks would achieve greater success with less skimming and more of a concentrated refugium system.
So it's all in what majority type of corals you really want to keep for best success in specific systems. Personally I would not keep Zenia (even though I like it) in an sps tank. (not saying that it's impossible to do. Just not the best environment for it.)
Dosing as well as heavy skimming works especially for ultra nutrient free and intermediate tanks especially employing SPS or a mix of corals of different types(some LPS).
I've kept zenia in different types of tanks and found that though manageable in different set ups- Zenia, various other softies and even many LPS appreciate systems with higher nutrient content. Light to no skimming works better in some applications as such. I also think based on PE that fuges are more effective in these applications. Depending on the majority of certain corals being kept. My zenia was more successful with higher nutrient levels. Where as my tanks that demanded heavier skimming and lower nutrient levels to keep certain corals alive- were essential for sps or mixed sps/lps tanks.
I think a softie or certain LPS/Softie mixed tanks would achieve greater success with less skimming and more of a concentrated refugium system.
So it's all in what majority type of corals you really want to keep for best success in specific systems. Personally I would not keep Zenia (even though I like it) in an sps tank. (not saying that it's impossible to do. Just not the best environment for it.)
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This thread has details about organic carbon dosing which should be helpful in deciding whether or not you want to use it and how to.
Whether or not you need it depends on the load in your system and the type of aquarium you wish to keep.
Keeping certain leathers gorgians and a variety of mushrooms with higher nutrients is ok and if you have enough coral in the tank ,algae can be kept to a minimum . I run a tank like that but sps , many lps ,zoanthidae and other types struggle in that set up.
IME, Most corals particularly sps and zoanthidae thrive with organic carbon dosing: mushrooms of most types( rhodactis, discoma, ricordea florida) do well; a broad range of lps do well; nemenzophylia, cataphyllia jardeni, and ricordea yuma are notable exceptions. Sponges love it, so does the goniopora I keep . Leathers including : sacrophyton, nepthea , sinularia , lobophytum do very well. Pachyclavularia, briarium and many others seem to like it fine. Xenia and some antheila do not.
Vinegar does not help cyano grow. Cyano dosen't need the organic carbon; it's highly photosynthetic . It's often a start up issue in carbon dosing . As bacteria establish themselves they outcompete other organisms that might be competing with the cyano for the available PO4. Ultimately teh bacteria take over.Been dosing vodka and vinegar for 3yrs and 8mos. Tanks have never been better; no cyano or nuisance algae except a sprig or two once in a while.
Often refugia ,etc are just not enough to carry an sps dominant set up or to allow adequate feeding of the fish unless they are very large.
Whether or not you need it depends on the load in your system and the type of aquarium you wish to keep.
Keeping certain leathers gorgians and a variety of mushrooms with higher nutrients is ok and if you have enough coral in the tank ,algae can be kept to a minimum . I run a tank like that but sps , many lps ,zoanthidae and other types struggle in that set up.
IME, Most corals particularly sps and zoanthidae thrive with organic carbon dosing: mushrooms of most types( rhodactis, discoma, ricordea florida) do well; a broad range of lps do well; nemenzophylia, cataphyllia jardeni, and ricordea yuma are notable exceptions. Sponges love it, so does the goniopora I keep . Leathers including : sacrophyton, nepthea , sinularia , lobophytum do very well. Pachyclavularia, briarium and many others seem to like it fine. Xenia and some antheila do not.
Vinegar does not help cyano grow. Cyano dosen't need the organic carbon; it's highly photosynthetic . It's often a start up issue in carbon dosing . As bacteria establish themselves they outcompete other organisms that might be competing with the cyano for the available PO4. Ultimately teh bacteria take over.Been dosing vodka and vinegar for 3yrs and 8mos. Tanks have never been better; no cyano or nuisance algae except a sprig or two once in a while.
Often refugia ,etc are just not enough to carry an sps dominant set up or to allow adequate feeding of the fish unless they are very large.
saltwaterpicaso
New member
i have leathers and shrooms and gorgonean lol however that is spelled the only thing that didnt do well in my tank was a torch coral shame couse it was really nice but nothing i did helped it or made it better. all my corals are great except that torch was trouble from the start im going to stop the dosing and see if the xenia comes back around.
downbeach
New member
I don't have a problem with carbon dosing, but there are a few things I would look into first, i.e. is your skimmer in good working order/large enough for your system? Are you doing regular water changes? Using GFO/GAC reactor's? What is the condition of your lights, i.e. type and age?
saltwaterpicaso
New member
mrc 1 skimmer with mag 12 pump. i dont run any gfo lights are led 3w bridgelux less than year old tank is 72 gallon bowfront with 20 gallon sump i have allot of rock
saltwaterpicaso
New member
saltwaterpicaso
New member
also last week i added two more hydor pumps 750 gph cyano has always been in tank i just cant get rid of it ever i feed every other day pellet and flake very sparingly. i change the filter sock every week and do 15 gallon water changes every week. the skimmer runs 24/7
saltwaterpicaso
New member
will that help with cyano
downbeach
New member
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Jmo
Jmo
don't put the cart before the horse.
You don't need anything fancy to beat Cyanobacteria. It's something we ALL have to learn to do. It's a never ending battle with red slime and nuisance alga. Even experienced aquarists such as myself must remain vigilent in regards to controlling environmental consitions in a closed system.
Jmo
don't put the cart before the horse.
You don't need anything fancy to beat Cyanobacteria. It's something we ALL have to learn to do. It's a never ending battle with red slime and nuisance alga. Even experienced aquarists such as myself must remain vigilent in regards to controlling environmental consitions in a closed system.
saltwaterpicaso
New member
its very fustrating i love my tank its my pride and joy but the never ending cyano is really letting me down
