Vortech vs Closed Loop?

GregC

New member
On an upcoming project, I am still debating on which one i want to go with. If I go with a closed loop system, I plan on using a Reeflow Barricuda, for hopefully some tremendous flow but problems I see are, intakes in the tank, drilling glass, lots of plumbing. In regards to the Vortech's, some people are happy with them, some are not, from what I have read there have been some quality issue's, although they seem to be addressed quickly, I have to wonder about the long term. Benefits: the Vortech’s are much easier installation, instant wavemaker. Con’s are expensive, quality and long term use IMO. Anyone have any comments on which one is the preferable route, and why? Also comments on the Vortech's, closed loop systems, and personal experience with either option would be excellent.

After I weigh out the pro’s and con’s and make a decision, the build thread will commence!!
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Greg, do you ever think you may move the tank? If you may I think the vortech's are the way to go. I have seen several closed loops and like them but i honeslty think that the vortech's do about the same job. I only have one in my 180 and there is not a single dead spot in my tank. The undertow is also awesome! Im planning on going with a 300+ gallon in the near future and think i will stick with the vortechs just for the fact of the the different settings they have and not having to worry about any dead spots. if you put 2 you can have great waves easy or go with the reef crest which is nice also. there is also a simple button to make it go into feeding mode. I dont know much about the closed loop, im sure paul w will chime in and let you know all the pro's and cons on its side but when i do go with my larger tank im going vortech's all the way. ohh not to mention you can get a battery backup for them which you cant simulate in a closed loop to my knowledge. thats just my thoughts, which isnt much.
 
sorry for the double post, when are you expecting to make your decision? i will be getting my 2nd vortech soon and can let you borrow with it to see if you like it if you want. you will love it though, there are so many settings and so many options with the vortechs. Again you are more than welcome to try it out for a bit.
 
I got my first Vortech last week, so of course I like it, it's what I decided to buy (a little disclaimer, though I went through this same decision a little while ago). I think (hope) they've worked out a number of the rough edges they had in the original model with the Gen 2 update that now includes a new plastic coated magnet, plastic screw and nut assembly and some updated software for the controller that gives a few new options (like night mode). They are super easy to set up, and easy to move around if you want to change your flow pattern. And it allowed me to keep the warrantee on my new tank by not having to drill holes in it. One downside I see is that you can't point them at anything, but the flow is pretty wide, so it doesn't seem to be a really big problem. And they do show up in the tank, and on the outside of the tank. If you haven't seen one they are about the diameter of a soda can. In my case it's not much of a problem since it will be on the end of the tank that nobody will see since it's facing a corner. But it could be a concern for some. I've seen some people put them on the back wall of the tank as well depending on the shape of the tank.

In the end a Vortech will probably not cost any more than a closed loop, if you count on using a barracuda and a wavy seas to keep it from being nothing but a steady stream. Otherwise your really comparing apples and oranges as a closed loop without any type of switching device is really nothing but a steady flow, and you don't need a vortech to do that, you could get some of the new non-controllable Tunze Stream 2, or the new Koralia Magnums that will be out this month for that. So if a Barracuda is around $300, and a Ocean Motions 4 way is around $380 for one that can handle the flow from a Barracuda your already up to $680 which is more than a single Vortech, and nearly as much as two (a pair of Vortechs will run you around $820). And we didn't count bulkheads, unions, valves, and other misc. plumbing in the numbers, and they add up. I'd bet by the time you factor in the time and effort of drilling the tank, plumbing, and everything, you'd probably have at least $800 into it. And at best you'll get maybe 4000 GPH flow out of it depending on head loss. A pair of Vortechs running at full can do 6400 GPH total, and then throttle down to 2000 on the low end, something you can't do with a Barracuda. The Vortech also has the battery backup option for another $150 that will run them during power outages for 30 hours for 1 pump, 15 hours for two.

The other difference I see right away is power consumption. The Barracuda is going to pull around 225 to 240 watts. A pair of Vortechs will be between 18 to 56 watts depending on the speed they are running. I'm not sure what the per kilowatt power cost is here, but just say .12 per Kw, a pair of Vortechs running full blast would consume about $5 per month in electricity, compared to around $19 for the Barracuda. That's not a huge amount, until you add up how many months you'll be paying that...
 
Definately some good points, If I go the Vortech route, I will probably get two, and just getter done the first time! Anyone who has a closed loop please throw in your thoughts.
 
J.D., Tulsa Reefer, do you need any additional powerheads in your tanks with the Vortech's? I am guessing not, just wanted to ask.
 
In the 110 where I have my Vortech today I have a couple more Koralia 4's, but that's because the tank is extremely packed with soft corals and the flow can't get to the other end being blocked by a couple toadstool leathers about 18" in diameter, one which is right in front of the vortech. In my upcoming 220, I'm expecting one Vortech not to be enough in total, so I'll probably be running a few other powerheads (modded Tunze 6025s) until I can get a second Vortech...
 
I've had a closed loop and in my opinion (unless you have a huge tank etc) their is just to much plumbing and mess. I like my tunze pumps very much. I wouldn't hesitate with vortech's either. Both are good brands and proven.

I really like the idea of the motor on the outside and the wireless controller etc...
 
Bear in mind a vortech can only force water at 90 degrees to the surface it is mounted to. To me that is the main disadvantage, I prefer to have flow I can adjust, and at various angles....hence the CL.
 
Seems like the koralia magnum would be a good option in price and energy consumption. But you still have to have extra crap in the tank. I think bearing in mind a possible future move the koralia's or vortech's are looking better and better.
 
And Tunze is coming out with a really nice controllable Stream 2 series a little later this year. A couple of the non-controllable versions are already out. More compact than the old Tunze streams, they are basically bigger versions of the Nano Stream, look just like them (though larger) but way more flow. They now include the magnet holder too, so no need to buy that extra any more. The smallest controllable Stream 2 will do a little over 3400 GPH, largest one will do almost 8000 GPH. The problem is they may not be in the market until toward the end of the year. And they have a new controller coming out that you program from your computer. Supposed to have quite a few more options than the existing Tunze controller, while being lower cost as well.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13193507#post13193507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chaderic26
Seems like the koralia magnum would be a good option in price and energy consumption. But you still have to have extra crap in the tank. I think bearing in mind a possible future move the koralia's or vortech's are looking better and better.

Problem with the magnum is that it's not a controllable pump, so it's a laminar flow again, no variation for the most part. Prices look pretty good on them, though it's hard to tell how big they will be from the pictures. My goal is to get the water moving around the tank much more like a real ocean, not just a straight line laminar flow. Unfortunately that drives the cost way up, as your looking at either Tunze, Vortech, the controllable Koralias, or a closed loop with a ocean motions to do this. All of them have a nice price tag as well. This is the one thing I've been really unable to find a great economical solution for on my new tank build, which is why when last week I was able to grab a new Vortech for ~$300 I took it right away.
 
Aren't you getting laminal flow anyways? Just a pulsed flow rate with a controller. The key is where direction your pointing your power heads in. IMO It's best to point power heads at each other and\or bounce them off glass and rock in order to create dynamic current.
 
I would rather have all the flow all the time. Done in a smart way in order to create dynamic eddys and current then half the current for a second then all the current for a second. Seems like I would be cheating myself out of important flow that most tanks are lacking. I think most pulsing and wave making devices are mostly aesthetic and probably just wear down a pump faster.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13193616#post13193616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chaderic26
Aren't you getting laminal flow anyways? Just a pulsed flow rate with a controller. The key is where direction your pointing your power heads in. IMO It's best to point power heads at each other and\or bounce them off glass and rock in order to create dynamic current.

Correct, it's really still laminar, but varies in intensity a great deal. The Vortech has a couple modes that are fairly random in the pulses, not a continually timed event of say on 3 seconds, off 3 seconds, it's a random ramping up and down that they can do which makes it more of a chaotic wave action. And your absolutely right, you can point powerheads at each other to get them more chaotic, and it's very helpful, but still tends to be pretty static over time as the intensity doesn't really change. Regular powerheads are capable of slowing down at night, or being kicked up to a high speed to have a 'storm' in the tank once in a while. But then I'm not sure it's really necessary :), it's just one of those things you get into that you want a gadget once in a while to play with too!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13193645#post13193645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chaderic26
I would rather have all the flow all the time. Done in a smart way in order to create dynamic eddys and current then half the current for a second then all the current for a second. Seems like I would be cheating myself out of important flow that most tanks are lacking. I think most pulsing and wave making devices are mostly aesthetic and probably just wear down a pump faster.

If you've ever dived or snorkeled on a reef, it's not a constant current. It's a shifting back and forth as the tide goes in and out and the waves and swells move in the reef and shore. If you watch the fish, they are continually being shifted back and forth, not pushed forever in one direction. The soft corals bend one way, then the other, sometimes almost bending completely over. I guess that's what I'm looking for, not sure I can have it, but I'm going to try.

As for wearing out pumps, that's why controllable pumps are so much more expensive. They aren't simple AC motors that are on and off. They are usually DC motors that can vary their RPM to what the controller is set to. I agree that simple timers and switching wave makers aren't really the answer and probably do burn out regular powerheads quite a bit quicker than if you just kept them on forever.

And as for being cheated out of flow, most of the controllable pumps start at a much higher flow than the non-controllable ones. So they have a bit to spare compared to the everyday Koralia 3 or 4, which is why they can get away with being run at less than 100% all the time. But then again, you paid dearly for it as well, so there is no free ride in the flow game.
 
It would definitely be fun to play with. I bet you could do some pretty cool stuff with two static koralias and vortech pulsing back at them interrupting the flow and pushing it around.
 
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