Want to help build a large reef tank?

My tank is 43" tall. I love it. Sure, I keep a ladder near by, but I knew that. I can easily reach the back bottom part of the tank with long tongs. My dims are 145x32x43. They only problem is when adding new corals trying to place them down lower with the glue or epoxy. Other than that I love it
What's great about the height is the different zones u can make. My left side rockwork goes almost all the way from top to bottom and is fairly vertical most of way down. Did this for the hopeful anthia congregation on the reef wall. Other areas are a longer slope and an rock atoll that reaches half way up the tank height. Tons of swimming place above rockwork for tangs, anthias and wrasses to open water swim if they feel inclined
 
My tank is 43" tall. I love it. Sure, I keep a ladder near by, but I knew that. I can easily reach the back bottom part of the tank with long tongs. My dims are 145x32x43. They only problem is when adding new corals trying to place them down lower with the glue or epoxy. Other than that I love it
What's great about the height is the different zones u can make. My left side rockwork goes almost all the way from top to bottom and is fairly vertical most of way down. Did this for the hopeful anthia congregation on the reef wall. Other areas are a longer slope and an rock atoll that reaches half way up the tank height. Tons of swimming place above rockwork for tangs, anthias and wrasses to open water swim if they feel inclined
I would like to see pics of your aquascape.
 
why not split the difference and go 3'6"? I have trouble lighting the bottom 6" of my tank at 4'. It's also a pain to reach past the 3' range. I know you can use tongs, but how do you glue frags to rocks with tongs?
 
OK, so sorry about the long lapse here. This is not a high priority with them but I guess in the grand scheme of things... So this Saturday I have access to the house and will take detailed pictures of the tank, access above and below the tank so that we can start to make decisions on what will fit. Naturally, I will have to get the bids on the tank first and get that started, but then the sump and the lighting is next. I am thinking that LED is the only way to go. MH is out because I am thinking that the small enclosed area above the tank may hold too much heat. If it is possible, because of the limited room under the tank, I would like to try to get away without refrigeration. I will post the pics this weekend and then we can discuss options.
 
Hi Everyone. So, after Saturday's exploratory trip, a little overwhelmed. After measuring the tank and plugging into the calculator, instead of being 500 gallons as stated, it appears to be about 688 gallons and with the sump over 700. The design of this install is horrendous. Access to the top of the tank is virtually non existent. The top center panel on the front of the tank is all that opens. Inside of this very heavy panel (with no support) is all of the access to the top of this tank. This top access is divided right down the middle of the tank, left to right by a board. THERE IS NO ACCESS to the back half of this tank at all. You cannot access the overflows if anything should go wrong. Lighting cannot be provided to the back half of the tank. In the front area, to the left and right, the tank is covered by wood. The only opening is dead center, about 36" X 20". Over this is mounted a fluorescent light (36") with 6 tubes. 3 of which are burned out. See attached pics below.

I am a little overwhelmed, but going to set a plan into motion and just take it piece by piece. I have decided that all of the wood over the tank and maybe underneath must be redone... the whole free standing piece, starting from scratch. I am not overly comfortable doing this but I am working with the house manager and he said to do what ever needs to be done. It is going to be a huge amount of money but he said before I can even spend all of it, the interest will have put it back. I have never been wealthy so that concept blows me away. We have the original carpenter available so that is a plus. I am going to meet with him this week and work out a plan. The sump area is not huge, but workable, if I have to stay the same size. If we can change that sump area, I would really like to go with a Royal Exclusiv sump with dual 230 W RD 3s for return. This is up for debate.

See the pics below. Here is what I want to accomplish this week.

Tank Quote.
This will be a glass tank, with low iron glass on front and back. As you can see, the tank now has two angles on the front. (these are slight (170 degrees)) This would look horrible with two silicone seams on the front. My plan is to either change this to a rectangular tank, or a bow front to stay with a similar theme. Thoughts?
Tank measurements:
Length - 92"
Width - 36"
Height - 50"
Do we lose 12" off the top of this tank to make it manageable? If I have full access to the top of the tank, 50" is still pretty deep.

Lighting:
I think with the limited room that MH is out of the question, just way to much heat. Tell me if you think I am wrong. That leaves us with LED. We definitely need some penetration here. Lighting ideas.

And finally sump. I noted my thoughts above. Let's hear some others. You see below what this looks like now. I do not just want an a clear acrylic sump. I want this to be a show piece. I want to impress the heck out of them. No plain white PVC here. This tank will also need a good sized refugium.

Also, I am thinking of setting this up on the Triton method. I will not be on site all of the time to take care of this. I will be teaching the house manager. I will, however be on call. See more pics next page.
 

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More pics.
 

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Good morning all. Having met with the carpenter here are some of the final decisions. I am not going to get any or just a little extra room in the lower cabinet. I was not overly concerned about this as I was just going to have a longer sump made and not worry about the width. Last night, I discovered a drain pipe in the floor about 4 inches to the right of the sump. It has an overflow pipe from the sump in it. I am not sure how I can work around that yet. The tank and all of the cabinet, above and below will be ripped out and completely reconstructed. A welded stainless steel support structure will be built in to the cabinet to support the weight of the tank. Over the tank, will be completely opened up (as much as possible) The reason the back part was closed off is because it is the lower ceiling in the other room and they put a board across the floor joists. I am having that and the sheet rock removed and even though I have floor joists I will still have access to the back of the tank and will use the joists for mounting the light fixtures. The height of the tank will not change. Maybe two inches, from 50 to 48. 50 aggravates me. lol The two angles on the front of the tank will go away.
The new tank will be a tall rectangular tank:
92" x 36" x 48" Low iron glass for the front and back (viewable from both sides)
The overflow boxes will remain where they are in the right and left rear of the tank. I considered changing that but it is the only way of having access to that plumbing after. See the last pic above.
Note: Notice in the pic that those are UV sterilizers. I just realized that. Now, they don't work, the bulbs burned out long ago, but there is no way to change them as the bulbs are too long and there is not enough height. To be relocated under the tank.

@ dave.m - I have spoken with Ecoxotic and their recommendation is 5 of the Cannon Pro 120 LED Pendants. These will mount perfectly on the joists. They are 10" long. These are not normally sold to hobbyists and I had to order from the company as they are normally used for public aquaria. First line item cost - 3495.00

Today, I will request tank prices. I will be contacting Miracle and Coast to Coast
 
If the Ecoxotic prices are curling your toes you could also contact Orphek. I'm pretty sure they have units that will meet the water depth needs of your display tank, as well.

For the drain pipe under the stand, I would leave it in place and drill a hole for a bulkhead in the bottom of the new sump so that you can use the drain as a stand pipe in the sump. This will automatically set your maximum water level in the sump with no need for level switches. Saves the house from flooding.

Dave.M
 
Now that is an interesting Idea. Orphek did have a comparable light. I have emailed them with a request for pricing on the Kaspian Pendant LED. Very, Very similar. I have been working with Coast to Coast all morning on a quote for the tank. Chris is pulling together a number for me. It's not gonna be pretty.:eek1:
 
Ha Ha Yea, pretty was not the word for it. The estimate for the tank and stand (required for the 10 year warranty), delivered, is 37,000 and change. They are beautiful tanks! The kicker for me is that they have never had a tank failure. This is important for me on this install. Worth every dime.
 
OK, so everyone, not sure if anyone is following anymore but here is the final (?) quote. Any suggestions? Now is the time!
 

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That tank price is ridiculous. If they care at all about the spend, I'd contact Planet Aquariums. They build great stuff. I recently got quotes from Reef Savvy, Miracles and Planet. Reef Savvy and Miracles came in 2x Planet Aquariums.
 
I'd think you would want more flow than 2 gyres are going to give. I assume that the Apex gold kit includes the Doser though you'll probably want 2 Apex Doser units.
 
OK, so everyone, not sure if anyone is following anymore but here is the final (?) quote. Any suggestions? Now is the time!

Just my 2 cents..

Aquarium price seems high.... even out of starphire... might want to try acrylic?

Stand price is good though :) cheap for powder coated stand made from 4x4..

Also lights seem to be on the cheap side..

Rest of the stuff is off the shelf so it is what it is.

why not the new WAV from apex considering you are running a gold?

The servicing of the tank seem high as well...

just what i think of when i see the list... Overall though seems a decent price I would expect the project to top out over 80k all said and done though.

I remember my budget for my build.... yea that is long gone.... :P
 
AGE in Garland, Tx makes extraordinarily fine tanks. Mine is 96x42x36 H. Starfire on all sides. Steel frame top and bottom. PVC bottom. If I were to do it again I would go a full 48" side (front-to-back). I would go up to 42" talk, but not more. Lighting becomes critical if there is to be any coral at bottom. The bottom they put in is really nice. I will always use this bottom from now on. For one thing, it is tough, not fragile.

$100K is not necessarily off by much either high of low. If you have never done a complete system of this size you will be surprised how much more expensive everything becomes. My whole system is at about 1,000 gallons. Everything has to be larger. Nothing comes reasonably priced when it gets bigger.

You will need as much automation as possible for a number of reasons, one of which is for remote monitoring and control by someone other than the owner.
 
@Dave and Jeremy. Agreed, the price of the tank is super high. One of the big reasons that I have gone with this one is because their record so far is perfect. Never a tank failure or even a drip. I won't disclose my clients name because I don't think he would want it out here, but the money is not a problem and a tank failure here, not that it would be good anywhere, would be a huge disaster. As for the doser, no, the Apex gold does not include that. At this point I don't want to add one, not that I may shortly. I am going to use the Triton method on this tank. Since I will not be around it on a daily basis, I am going to teach the house manager daily maintenance. Have the water tested by the Triton lab every two weeks and dose with the needed/missing supplements. The only dosing will be Kalkwasser and will be added with ATO for now.
As for using the two gyre FS150s... yes, I may have to add to that, but with the way the tank displays, without having cords hanging in tank for powerheads, there is no place where the external motors on the glass would not be obtrusive. I have looked at the flow rates on the FS150 and they are impressive. These would be mounted on opposite (short) sides, pointed downward toward the middle of the tank.

@Elder... They have acrylic now. It is scratched to hell because the tank is so deep that maintenance is difficult and the individual doing it simply runs magnetic scrubbers, picking up gravel and tearing it up. I am not going to go back to the same disaster that is already in place.
As for the lights... I am not sure why you say cheap? These are Ecoxotic Pro 120 cannons. This tank is 50" deep. Penetrating to that depth is fairly difficult for most hobbyist grade lights on the market while keeping any amount of light. I tried to find these at the Ecoxotic dealers listed and they were not to be found. I contacted the company directly and these are not generally sold to the home aquarist, they are sold for public aquarium use when it is necessary to penetrate deep tanks and would have to order direct. These lights are 699.00 a piece and I ordered 5. While not outrageous, I really didn't feel that I went cheap on these.
The tank servicing (I assume you mean installation and training) price includes, tear down and removal of the old tank. Installing the new tank, new electrical circuits, new plumbing and all new equipment shown above. (this will require a forklift and driver rental) Once the tank is operational I will train the house manager on every part of the tank and daily maintenance and operation. I will have bi-weekly visits to make sure the tank is operating properly and to answer any questions or deal with any issues. I will be receiving texts from the APEX in case of a problem plus I will be on call during this 3 month time period. Just for comparison, they are paying an LFS, 1200.00 per month to come by once a week for 15 minutes to scratch, I mean clean the tank. The house manager tells me he is barely there for that time and wants to know how soon we can release them. So I disagree on that being high. If anything, I was thinking it might be a little low.
 
You might want to slow down and take another breather. The price is more than just too high. My 96x42x36H tank, 3/4" starfire glass 4 sides made by AGE in Garland, Texas, with superb construction and my custom built TIG welded stainless stand were a fraction of that cost. See my post above #38. My stand is 8 legged fully rimmed and cross braced, top and bottom, 2" square tubing, stainless steel. It was designed for over twice the weight it will carry and some pretty strong lateral dynamic loads, over-designed for sure.

You should, indeed, be impressed by a tank builder whose tanks have never leaked. But understand that the best tank builders' tanks don't leak. Don't get carried away on this one point to where you pay through the nose for the extra security that is not that extra. Talk to tank manufacturers about what their leak history is, but also talk to them about what they will do if a leak does occur. That is far more important than finding out you have the first tank that the builder ever had spring a leak. What is the tank builder's commitment to the future of his tanks, not just his bragging points about his past. Then get it in writing!

If I ever do another large display tank I would increase the width (front-to-back) before I would increase the depth of water; mine is 36" high. The top of my tank is at 6' 2" from the floor under a 9 ft ceiling which is just about minimum for mounting lights and for working on or in the tank. I am a big guy. I built a light frame suspension system with a hoist to move the lights up for when I have to access the tank interior. I have a decent equipment room for all of my support equipment so I do not have to work in my tank except for unusual situations, which is preferably never. I work in my sump and other support tanks.

Were I to increase the depth, I would not even consider going above 42". That drives costs through through the roof for the tank itself. That cost only starts with the the thickness of glass required to hold the pressure and builds up from there. It there is ever to be any reefscaping with corals, lighting can move from a difficult proposition to a nightmare, above 36-42" tall tank. If it will always be a fish-only tank forever lighting is not critical.

In your earlier posts you talked about the access above the tank as being pretty cramped. Extra tank height goes against this unless you mount the tank a foot above the floor. You absolutely need an equipment room.

Have you planned a quarantine tank arrangement? ... and maybe even hospital tank(s). They are cheap, more necessary and extra valuable when you are operating a large display tank. With large display tanks, disease breakouts are extremely difficult to fight in-situ when you do not have hospital tanks... again equipment room. Also, UV sterilization isn't cheap if you do it right, but it can go a long way to preventing breakouts.
Preventing and fighting breakouts does not have to be about saving a fish or a coral, it is about saving your tank community.

IMHO, going over 42" tank height is very problematic on several counts. Putting a small amount of extra cost into increasing the extra width will provide a far more aesthetically valuable increase in the visual impact of a tank than height above 36" or 42".

Please back off of this overly expensive too-tall tank for a lesser expensive alternative that will probably give plenty of viewing impact, probably even more visual impact if you drop the tank height to 36-42" and increase width to 42 or 48".

Conserve funds now. You have a long way to go in equipment and tasks and you are looking at 40% of your budget gone before you've even started tackling the myriad expenses for top-end equipment and setting up a well electrified and equipped space for support equipment. Complete this task for your friend for $75K and be greatly appreciated and praised, $95K and still be a friend who did a great job to help a friend, $110K and you are just another contractor who couldn't control costs.

As a previous poster said $100K is in his rear view mirror. I can relate to that and I didn't spend anywhere near 40% of my budget on just the tank and stand. My point is that expenses "post tank and stand" can be surprisingly high with large capacity systems. Don't paint yourself into a corner early on. On top of that you have to keep some reserve. There will be unexpected stuff happen and it won't be free.

One other thing and this is speculative on my part. Your wealthy "client" friend is probably capable of changing his mind abruptly when it is necessary or convenient for him. He may like the tank a lot and grow to like the beauty it provides his rooms more than he even expects to. That may draw him to reefscaping with corals. Don't lock him out of that option. Lighting this very tall tank is a giant problem. The tank is a room divider. Seeing through a tank into the other room is distracting and not as attractive as looking at a reef, deep into the tank, set back from the glass with a good amount of foreground. Having similar a similarly spacious view from the other room also will really be an extra touch of class. A reef that blocks the see-through view may be a visually powerful feature for the room-division purpose.

I wish you success in learning throughout the journey this tank build will turn out to be. Most of all I wish you success in having your friend be overwhelmed with the wonderful tank he has as his new room divider done by a friend who did not become just another contractor who couldn't control costs.


And thank you for sharing your journey so openly with all of us.
 
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