Warner Marine Now Has A Pellet Product

[jsdancer]

iam into the pellet for a week now. so far, no cloudy, great PE from sps. clearer water (also running GAC). not see algae growth much in the tank (i must have low phosphate to start with). i just get rid of my refugium duel to sump shatter. so far so good, the pellets are less stumbling around, i think the bacterias are taking over.

Sounds good! Good luck to you and keep us posted weekly on your nutrient levels and your observations.

 

[Ycore]

How long does it usually take before seeing some sort of change on the pellets? I've had my reactor hooked up for a little over a week, and so far don't see any sliming or increase in skimmer output.

 

[Stuart60611]

I have noticed that the volume of my pellets seems to be reducing signficcantly. Now, since my pellets have become more sticky and therefore do not fluidize to the same height as they used to when first added, I am not sure whether the pellets are dissolving or the lower height the pellets take up in my reactor is a result of bacterial mass causing the pellets not to fluidize as high. I have a very heavy bioload and feed quite a bit. What are others experiences in terms of how often and much they have to add more pellets to their reactors?

As an important aside, I could not be more happy with my ecobak. My system has never run so clean. I hardly clean the glass and any phosphate or other organic matter which was previously absorbed in the rocks seems to have been released to the water column and taken up by bacteria and later exported via the skimmer. I have really no nuisance algae for some time now. My skimmer cup needs to be changed daily where before when dosing vodka I had to change my skimmer cup every few days. Fish also seem to have an increased appetite which I can only attribute to improved water parameters. I have been feeding considerably more, but my fish now devour the food with substantially more vigor, and I actually have less particles of food left over even though I am feeding more because they eat with such gusto. These have been a lifesaver for me, and the only method I have found of being able to manage my bioload effectively.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Turn of the flow and measure where they settle (ideally do this at the first start). You can then turn off the flow at any time and see how much shorter the stack is. At least this is the way I would go about measuring usage.

 

[Stuart60611]

Turn of the flow and measure where they settle (ideally do this at the first start). You can then turn off the flow at any time and see how much shorter the stack is. At least this is the way I would go about measuring usage.

Ya, great idea, and I wish I would have done that from the start. Now, I am left just eyeballing it and guessing. As such, curious what rate others are having to replace pellets to make an educated guess as to whether I need to add some more.

 

[Buganddoug]

My 180 Gallon is very heavily stocked and in the last 6 months of use my reactor is about half full from when I started using them. Jon Warner told me they should last anywhere from 6 months to a year. So fare he is right on with the time frame. I will be ordering more very soon.

 

[poolkeeper1]

Hmmm

Hmmm

My 180 Gallon is very heavily stocked and in the last 6 months of use my reactor is about half full from when I started using them. Jon Warner told me they should last anywhere from 6 months to a year. So fare he is right on with the time frame. I will be ordering more very soon.

That's weird as i have been using them around the same amount of time but see no less than what i started with. My tank is smaller and mostly Frags as it's fairly new, Set up around 7-8 months ago and just moved from a 60gal to a 105gal but there is lots of frags and small colony's. The move was just a tank/sump upgrade because it was so full already.
I wonder if I'm not running enough flow thru the reactor or if it's just that the coral is smaller? I'm going to mark the reactor so i can see if it's my imagination or what.
Bill:idea:

 

[platax88]

For some reason EB is not lowering my Ph4, At first it worked great bringing them down to .02 ... now I am at .12. My NO3 is at 1ppm.

I am putting GFO back online. Any suggestions? I have the flow prety low, just making the pellets dance.

I have switched to NLS pellets for food... are these suckas full of PH4 and EB cannot keep up?

 

[poolkeeper1]

Food

Food

For some reason EB is not lowering my Ph4, At first it worked great bringing them down to .02 ... now I am at .12. My NO3 is at 1ppm.

I am putting GFO back online. Any suggestions? I have the flow prety low, just making the pellets dance.

I have switched to NLS pellets for food... are these suckas full of PH4 and EB cannot keep up?

That is a real possibility, Especially if it was working before you switched. Some foods are loaded with it, And some are worse than others.
Have you been keeping up with water changes and replacing carbon? That may have an effect also. Good husbandry make a lot of difference in my opinion too.
I did put GFO back online one time and got it down pretty low and then removed it and have never gone back, Still way low 0-4 ppb and everything looks great.
Bill:wavehand:

 

[Stuart60611]

For some reason EB is not lowering my Ph4, At first it worked great bringing them down to .02 ... now I am at .12. My NO3 is at 1ppm.

I am putting GFO back online. Any suggestions? I have the flow prety low, just making the pellets dance.

I have switched to NLS pellets for food... are these suckas full of PH4 and EB cannot keep up?

If your nitrate is only 1ppm, then I think your problem is you are nitrate limited. Under the redfield ratio (or some version applicable to the bacteria in our system), bacteria uptake almost 10 times the amount of nitrate for each unit of phosphate. As such, the very low nitrate you have means that the bacteria will be unable to uptake much phosphate. If you are now adding more phosphate to the system with the NLS food, the bacteria will not be able to uptake the additional phosphate because your system has such low amounts of nitrate. You could, of course, use GFO to remove the excess phosphate. Alternatively and and as crazy as this sounds, you could also add nitrate to the system which in theory would allow the bacteria the ability to uptake the residual phosphate together with the additional nitrate you add.

 

[platax88]

That is a real possibility, Especially if it was working before you switched. Some foods are loaded with it, And some are worse than others.
Have you been keeping up with water changes and replacing carbon? That may have an effect also. Good husbandry make a lot of difference in my opinion too.
I did put GFO back online one time and got it down pretty low and then removed it and have never gone back, Still way low 0-4 ppb and everything looks great.
Bill:wavehand:

Hey Bill ... my husbandry is excellent. I treat the "mistress" well. As for water changes I have a continuous system. I decided o pull the filter sock to see if that is causing it (I admit I dont change these as often as I should, about every 4 days). The only other change was the food. I thought NLS pellets were the top shelve and i see that many top reefers use them...

It seems like I am not seeing much bacteria action. Before my pellets were gooey and my filter socks would clog in a day, now they tumble nicely and the socks dont clog. Skimmer production is good, def more than before the pellets.

 

[Stuart60611]

It seems like I am not seeing much bacteria action. Before my pellets were gooey and my filter socks would clog in a day, now they tumble nicely and the socks dont clog.

This lack of bacterial action as you describe is consistent with the suggestion that you are nitrate limited. Without nitrate, the bacteria do not have the ability to grow in mass and therefore you do not have a large bacterial mass.

 

[platax88]

If your nitrate is only 1ppm, then I think your problem is you are nitrate limited. Under the redfield ratio (or some version applicable to the bacteria in our system), bacteria uptake almost 10 times the amount of nitrate for each unit of phosphate. As such, the very low nitrate you have means that the bacteria will be unable to uptake much phosphate. If you are now adding more phosphate to the system with the NLS food, the bacteria will not be able to uptake the additional phosphate because your system has such low amounts of nitrate. You could, of course, use GFO to remove the excess phosphate. Alternatively and and as crazy as this sounds, you could also add nitrate to the system which in theory would allow the bacteria the ability to uptake the residual phosphate together with the additional nitrate you add.

Stuart .. I think this IS the issue! I do not want to experiment adding N03, but what about doing the opposite? Running GFo, until I reach .01-.03 which will be more balanced with the No3. At that point I can supply ph4 via food to keep the gears turning. Am I completely misunderstanding this?

 

[Stuart60611]

Stuart .. I think this IS the issue! I do not want to experiment adding N03, but what about doing the opposite? Running GFo, until I reach .01-.03 which will be more balanced with the No3. At that point I can supply ph4 via food to keep the gears turning. Am I completely misunderstanding this?

No, you understand things correctly, and your approach is viable. However, you may find that you may have to constantly run GFO because the pellets keep your nitrate real low but over time you have residual phosphate. The only way to avoid runing GFO under such circumstances and to rely on the pellets exclusively to uptake all the nitrate and phosphate is to add nitrate as odd as that may sound.

Of course, water changes too can reduce phosphate but are even more expensive and time consuming than GFO.

 

[platax88]

No, you understand things correctly, and your approach is viable. However, you may find that you may have to constantly run GFO because the pellets keep your nitrate real low but over time you have residual phosphate. The only way to avoid runing GFO under such circumstances and to rely on the pellets exclusively to uptake all the nitrate and phosphate is to add nitrate as odd as that may sound.

Of course, water changes too can reduce phosphate but are even more expensive and time consuming than GFO.

So how do the carbon dosers achieve undetectable levels of both while feeding a ton? Are the pellets not the same as VSV or vodka dosing...

I was hoping to pull the GFO and save some $ and maintenance

 

[Stuart60611]

So how do the carbon dosers achieve undetectable levels of both while feeding a ton? Are the pellets not the same as VSV or vodka dosing...

I was hoping to pull the GFO and save some $ and maintenance

The pellets are definitely not the same as VSV or vodka dosing. Different forms of carbon dosing result in the growth of different bacterial colonies both in terms of species and overall size of the bacterial mass. Different species of bacteria take up a different ratios of nitrate and phosphate. People are able to achieve undectable levels of nitrate and phosphate without the use of GFO with carbon dosing when their systems generate enough nitrate and have a large enough bacterial mass that the bacteria can take up all the nitrate and any phosphate that also is in the system. How to control such bacterial colonies and how different carbon sources affect the colonies is very much a mystery at this point because very little science has been conducted on the topic.

 

[platax88]

Using the Redfield Ratio:

C:N=106:16:1

If I have 1ppm of NO3 then I should be at .06 to be balanced.... And C we should have more than enough with the pellets

Maybe I'll pull the GFO when I reach .06 and see if things start lowering on their own. BTW, when i feed I am adding Ph4, but what about NO3?

 

[Stuart60611]

Using the Redfield Ratio:

C:N=106:16:1

If I have 1ppm of NO3 then I should be at .06 to be balanced.... And C we should have more than enough with the pellets

Maybe I'll pull the GFO when I reach .06 and see if things start lowering on their own. BTW, when i feed I am adding Ph4, but what about NO3?

Note that the redfield ratio is merely illustrative. The ratio may not apply precisely to the particular bacterial species we find in our systems. However, I am reasonably confident that the bacterial species we have in our system also take up many times more nitrate than for each unit of phosphate. However, noone knows what the precise ratio is or even which bacterial species ultimately take hold when using the pellets. When you feed you may also eventually add NO3, but I think the food needs to be broken down first and therefore the NO3 may take a while to show up.

 

[platax88]

Note that the redfield ratio is merely illustrative. The ratio may not apply precisely to the particular bacterial species we find in our systems. However, I am reasonably confident that the bacterial species we have in our system also take up many times more nitrate than for each unit of phosphate. However, noone knows what the precise ratio is or even which bacterial species ultimately take hold when using the pellets. When you feed you may also eventually add NO3, but I think the food needs to be broken down first and therefore the NO3 may take a while to show up.

... i need a beer :spin2:

 

[Stuart60611]

... i need a beer :spin2:

I am pretty sure that will not reduce your phosphate, but it may help you misread your test kit. :spin2: