Warranty not being honored.

[TWadeJ]

Yesterday, May 7, 2009, Ecotech Marine started a thread in which it warned that it would not honor warranties of its products purchased on eBay. See my response in that thread. I sent EcoTech the following email:

On April 20, 2009 I purchased a new Ecotech Marine MP40W pump from a vendor on eBay, Fishyman1203. As I am sure Ecotech is aware, Fishyman1203 has been selling one or two MP40W pumps on eBay per week for at least the last 12 months. Yesterday, Ecotech posted a thread on Reef Central which states that Ecotech will not honor Ecotech's warranty on MP40W's purchased from Fishyman1203 since the vendor scratched the serial numbers off. You can see my response in that thread under TWadeJ. You can also see that I left Fishyman1203 a negative feedback on eBay. I contacted the seller and was provided the following serial number: 40WG209031064. Since I purchased the MP40W BEFORE Ecotech stated that it would not honor warranties on pumps purchased from this vendor, I expect Ecotech to honor the warranty on my unit. Obviously the unit was purchased originally from Ecotech. The unit I received was new. I would like to resolve my issue in private as opposed to in the Reef Central forum. Please confirm that you will honor the warranty on my unit so that I can close my file on this issue. Also, the pump is amazing and, assuming we resolve this issue, I will be purchasing another for my tank. Thank you.

EcoTech Marine's response: EcoTech will not honor the warranty for me.

This is bad customer service. EcoTech got paid for the pump. EcoTech is now refusing to provide any warranty. EcoTech shouldn't punish the end customers because the vendors (who purchased the pumps from EcoTech) don't follow EcoTech's rules.

 

[TWadeJ]

For others who purchased a new MP40W from Fishyman1203 off eBay - Ecotech Marine is obligated to provide a warranty if you have the original sales reciept. Ecotech's own documents state that the warranty is based upon the serial number ONLY IF a copy of the original purchase receipt is not available. Therefore, if you have the original purchase receipt, Ecotech Marine should be obligated to honor the warranty.

Again, Ecotech's issue should be with the apparently rogue seller, not the end user. From my perspective it is a shame because I love the pump.

 

[EcoTech Marine]

TWadeJ-

We have developed a very simple procedure that will allow any customer who purchased a pump from fishyman1203 prior to our posting yesterday to obtain warranty support. We have been working with customers over the past few days initiating this new procedure.

Email Steve and ask for more details and we'll be back in touch with you on Monday.

In the mean time, there is absolutely no reason for derogatory postings and accusations, have a relaxing weekend and know that you will be taken care of.

 

[TWadeJ]

Tim,

Thank you. I quoted my email above and certainly don't view it or the factual comments in this forum as nasty (example "the pump is amazing" and "I love the pump"). In addition, I posted a negative feedback on the seller's ebay account so others will not find themselves in the position I am in. That is what you requested yesterday in the thread you opened. If Steve had responded to my email as you did we wouldn't have a problem. Instead, his response was no serial number, no warranty and that my "dispute is with the Seller, not EcoTech." Basically his response is that I was SOL. I look forward to hearing from you on Monday. Steve has my email.

 

[ganjero]

Its not fair for you but those are the risks you take when buying from ebay, where ecotech has no control. Paypal and ebay give you 90 days of protection, try to get your money back through them.

 

[TWadeJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14977284#post14977284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ganjero
Its not fair for you but those are the risks you take when buying from ebay, where ecotech has no control. Paypal and ebay give you 90 days of protection, try to get your money back through them.

In certain cases perhaps. However, I disagree that the purchasers of the MP40Ws from this seller knowingly took such a risk. This seller was selling at least two MP40Ws a week for a significant amount of time. The seller was a large operation with numerous MP40Ws. Where did he get them? I assume that Ecotech was aware of this seller. If Ecotech Marine states that they were stolen from the factory, then I might understand Ecotech's position. However, the seller had to buy them from somewhere. My guess is that they were bought directly from Ecotech or from a wholeseller who purchased them from Ecotech. In addition, I read on the Ecotech forum that the warranty was transferable. When someone buys a 3 month old MP40W from the ReefCentral used equipment forum, do they have the remainder of the warranty? I don't believe it is an issue of Ecotech truly believing the pumps are not new. That allegation by Ecotech is a red herring. I believe it is an issue of Ecotech fighting fair market pricing. Again, if Ecotech establishes that it received no money from originally selling these pumps, I will re-evaluate my position. I provided Ecotech with the serial number the seller provided to me. I am hopefull that Ecotech will let us all know who the seller is.

 

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14976851#post14976851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TWadeJ
For others who purchased a new MP40W from Fishyman1203 off eBay - Ecotech Marine is obligated to provide a warranty if you have the original sales reciept. Ecotech's own documents state that the warranty is based upon the serial number ONLY IF a copy of the original purchase receipt is not available. Therefore, if you have the original purchase receipt, Ecotech Marine should be obligated to honor the warranty.

Be careful there, you might have a receipt of purchase however you are not purchasing a new product as supplied by Ecotech, you're buying a product that has been tampered with. The box has been opened, parts have been removed from the product whether it is a sticker or a microchip, it makes no difference, and it's being repackaged and sold at a discount.

Used to annoy me to no end, back when I would buy games at the store that the owners would open up all the boxes, remove the CDs/DVDs/whatever, then when you buy it have them put it back in the box, then have the audacity to re-shrinkwrap it as if it's brand new, and often right in front of you.

You got a good price on it sure, but the same thing can be said about any equipment you buy 2nd hand, you want the warranty? You pay a higher price for that product. You want to save a few bucks? You go for the used ones.

 

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14977685#post14977685 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TWadeJ
I believe it is an issue of Ecotech fighting fair market pricing.

What is fair market pricing though?

Someone buys wholesale from EcoTech, they have an agreement they will not sell (or at the very least advertise a price) below one they set. Don't like it? Buy your new pumps from someone else other than EcoTech, but don't be surprised when you don't get the wholesale price.

The fact the person is removing the serial numbers pretty much shows he knows he's doing something against what he agreed to do.

It's funny, everyone is up in arms when Wal-Marts of the world come into your hometown and destroy small businesses... that is until you find out you can buy a product for much cheaper there then it's a different tune. This is the same thing.

 

[BillyBee]

I, too, believe this whole thing has to do with "Ecotech fighting fair market pricing".

Let the marketplace dictate how much a dealer is willing to sell the items for. Let basic economics of supply and demand dictate the retail price.

It shouldn't matter to Ecotech as they have made their profit already. It should only matter to the retailer trying to protect his market.

Its a great product so why be afraid of what it sells for at the retail level.

 

[Justdrew]

Removing the serial number is nothing new on e-bay. This is common practice in the world of home and car audio. Most high end brands do not allow sales of their products on e-bay. The sellers are not an authorized outlet. The sellers most likely have a real-world store that is an authorized reseller, but they do this to increase volume with a lower profit. Alpine in one example. 99% of the Alpine product bought on e-bay will have the serial number removed and have no warranty from Alpine. Hopefully most buyers will know this before going that route. However, many of the car audio sellers on e-bay offer their own 30 day, 90 day, even 1 year warranty on the product. It's just not a manufacturer's warranty. I went this route and saved about 30% off the retail price, but I knew the risks going in.

Eco-Tech is going above and beyond by helping out those that purchased from this e-bay seller, but they have no obligation to.

Later
Drew

 

[recife111]

Buy things on ebay at your own risk, why post derogatory comments.

 

[JasonD]

Why not just put a sticker inside the controller to help catch Fishyman1234? That way Ecotech could punish him for selling to cheap.:bum:

Jason

 

[mcrist]

I agree that when you buy anything on eBay you do it at your own risk. I see no reason why EcoTech should honor their warranty on any device that has their serial number removed.

 

[jimmyPx]

Hello,

I'm going to play "Devil's Advocate" here:

Hmmm.... Let me see, you did not want to pay Retail for the pumps. You wanted a great "deal". You bought something well below Retail on Ebay of all places. When you get it, the pump of course is broken. You then want the Manufacturer to pay to fix this pump for free. When they hesitate, you get angry and blast them on their Support Forum.

I must say that Ecotech is being very generous to fix these pumps for you.

 

[BillyBee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14989898#post14989898 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimmyPx
Hello,

I'm going to play "Devil's Advocate" here:

Hmmm.... Let me see, you did not want to pay Retail for the pumps. You wanted a great "deal". You bought something well below Retail on Ebay of all places. When you get it, the pump of course is broken. You then want the Manufacturer to pay to fix this pump for free. When they hesitate, you get angry and blast them on their Support Forum.

I must say that Ecotech is being very generous to fix these pumps for you.

Your missing the point that Ecotech got paid already for their product. AND built into that is warranty work. Don't mix up manufacturer and retailer.

 

[john rochon]

the real question that just doesn't seem to get answered is,,
these are expensive powerheads!!! how could this ebay seller NOT be known to ECOTECH??? he had to purchase a good amount of these in order to be selling them constantly.

something else is going on here because if I had a product that was pretty much state of the art, and big $$$$ I'd dam well would know who bought more than 10 of these off of me. right?

 

[JasonD]

John,

What makes it tough to identify the errant idividual is that the seller could also own a retail business that sells Vortechs, so an extra eight a month could be 'hidden' within his/her normal retail sales.

That being said Ecotech could clandestinely put unique identifying marks on groups of Vortechs to help narrow down who the rogue seller is.

Would take a little effort though, easier to just put the burden on the consumer/buyer.


Jason

 

[Superstretch18]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14990269#post14990269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BillyBee
Your missing the point that Ecotech got paid already for their product. AND built into that is warranty work. Don't mix up manufacturer and retailer.

Here's the problem; if manufacturers don't set a minimum retail value, then it diminishes the value of their product. Here's what happens:

- retailer sells below MSRP
- More people buy at MSRP
- When enough people do this, MSRP is percieved as unreasonable
- Other retailers need to charge below MSRP in order to sell any of said product
- Some retailers decide that it's not worth it to sell particular product at below MSRP and either move to offer a different product line or approach manufacturer for lower wholesale pricing.
- Price of the product is lowered.
- If this is done enough, it becomes unprofitable for the manufacturer to produce a good product and starts cutting costs with cheaper materials or just cuts the line.

The manufacturer is trying to retain control of their product. I see no problem here...

 

[mixer911]

Just buy Tunze and you will never have this issue.... That being said I own both Tunze and Ecotech, but Tunze will warranty their product, no questions asked. I am not flaming Ecotech by any means as it looks like from their posts they are going to Honor their warranty. Just an FYI

 

[EcoTech Marine]

If I could determine who the seller in question was it would be easy to solve this problem. Unfortunately he is removing the serial numbers to prevent me from doing so. He is purposely hiding his identity so that he can continue to sell on eBay without repercussions. Moreover, not everyone buys directly from us. Some people purchase through wholesalers which also makes tracking these people down more difficult.

We have already established that we will provide warranty support for customers who have already purchased from this vendor in the past, based on certain conditions.

Moving forward: Buyer Beware- These are used pumps. Once they have been opened and tampered with, they are no longer new. Without a serial number we cannot determine age and therefore they have no warranty.