Water Changes Necessary?
- Thread starter Yodeling
- Start date
MiddletonMark pretty much sums up my opinion as well. In addition, it is one less thing to worry about when something changes in your tank. You don't have to wonder if you are getting some gradual toxin build-up or trace element depletion, because you know your water changes have precluded that possibility.
Mike
Mike
wakeboarder2342
Member
Since everyone so far is pro water changes ill give the opposing view.
I have been keeping reef tanks now for over 8 years and to say the least my water change schedule has been poor at best! i generally do a waterchange every 8-12 months of about 30-40 percent. My 65 gallon system has been up now for over 7 years and i guarantee i can count the water changes on both hands. It contains SPS.LPS and a few clams that i have had for 5 plus years. i also have several fish in that system now for 5 plus years.
i think the weekly water change idea was put out by Instant Ocean!!
I now have my 180 gallon in wall system that has been up for about 6 months, i admit i did do a water change a few months ago as i had an outbreak of RTN in some of my corals.
IMO the secret to little or no water changes is the following.
1-first a calcium reactor is essential in restoring trace elements ect.
2-a very large skimmer, i run a 3.5 foot becket powerd by an iwaki 70.
3- a very large refuguim, i have a 30 gallon attached to my 100 gallon sump that is a solid mass of macro algea. this helps keep nitrates down, mine are undetectable.
4- low stocking and feeding. i try to keep the fish count very low compared to what others would do, my 180 has atotal water volume of over 300 gallons and i will only have maybe 8-10 small sized fish in there, and most of those will be tangs and other herbivors. I only feed maybe twice a week, and a very small amount. I let most of the feeding come from within the system, again this can only be done on large tanks with low stocking.
anyway that is my opionon of water changes, take it for what it is worth but that is my true experiance. I dont think i have the worlds greatest tanks, but i would deffintly put them above average. You can see the thread on my 180 here, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=609167
i think the only way to really prove one way or th eother if water changes are necessary would be to setup 2 identicle tanks with the exact stock and run one with weekly water changes and the other with minimal or zero changes and evaluate the differnece. Does anyone have any statistics if this has been done before?
I have been keeping reef tanks now for over 8 years and to say the least my water change schedule has been poor at best! i generally do a waterchange every 8-12 months of about 30-40 percent. My 65 gallon system has been up now for over 7 years and i guarantee i can count the water changes on both hands. It contains SPS.LPS and a few clams that i have had for 5 plus years. i also have several fish in that system now for 5 plus years.
i think the weekly water change idea was put out by Instant Ocean!!
I now have my 180 gallon in wall system that has been up for about 6 months, i admit i did do a water change a few months ago as i had an outbreak of RTN in some of my corals.
IMO the secret to little or no water changes is the following.
1-first a calcium reactor is essential in restoring trace elements ect.
2-a very large skimmer, i run a 3.5 foot becket powerd by an iwaki 70.
3- a very large refuguim, i have a 30 gallon attached to my 100 gallon sump that is a solid mass of macro algea. this helps keep nitrates down, mine are undetectable.
4- low stocking and feeding. i try to keep the fish count very low compared to what others would do, my 180 has atotal water volume of over 300 gallons and i will only have maybe 8-10 small sized fish in there, and most of those will be tangs and other herbivors. I only feed maybe twice a week, and a very small amount. I let most of the feeding come from within the system, again this can only be done on large tanks with low stocking.
anyway that is my opionon of water changes, take it for what it is worth but that is my true experiance. I dont think i have the worlds greatest tanks, but i would deffintly put them above average. You can see the thread on my 180 here, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=609167
i think the only way to really prove one way or th eother if water changes are necessary would be to setup 2 identicle tanks with the exact stock and run one with weekly water changes and the other with minimal or zero changes and evaluate the differnece. Does anyone have any statistics if this has been done before?
jdieck
New member
A good friend of mine said "Dilution is the solution to pollution"
No matter how good your filtration and supplements they are not perfect.
Water changes will:
a) Reduce accumulation of refractory organics which can't be removed by any know filtration.
b) Reduce Nitrates and Phosphates remining even when Refugiums and Phosphate removing media is in use
c) Remove toxins liberated by corals to prevent growth of other corals
d) Restore bionic balance, specially if supplements containing Chloride, Sodium or Sulphate are in use.
e) Replenish trace elements consumed by the corals
f) reduce the concentration of algae spores specially those wiped of the glass with every cleaning.
g) Dilute detrimental bacterial and virus accumulation in the water column
h) Provide some buffer for emergency situations.
All of the above proven and measured effects.
How much water you need to replace will much depend on your bioload but you need to replace some sometime.
Where would you prefer to spend your time. In an enclosed room (Call it submarine) with recicled and scrubbed air, recovered drinking water reprocessed from human wastes eating food loaded with preservatives, frozen for months or dried or on an open pririe next to a creek drinking fresh glacial water, partially eating partly the processed food that you carried with local berries and small hunt? A crude comparison but that is how I feel about it.
Enjoy!
No matter how good your filtration and supplements they are not perfect.
Water changes will:
a) Reduce accumulation of refractory organics which can't be removed by any know filtration.
b) Reduce Nitrates and Phosphates remining even when Refugiums and Phosphate removing media is in use
c) Remove toxins liberated by corals to prevent growth of other corals
d) Restore bionic balance, specially if supplements containing Chloride, Sodium or Sulphate are in use.
e) Replenish trace elements consumed by the corals
f) reduce the concentration of algae spores specially those wiped of the glass with every cleaning.
g) Dilute detrimental bacterial and virus accumulation in the water column
h) Provide some buffer for emergency situations.
All of the above proven and measured effects.
How much water you need to replace will much depend on your bioload but you need to replace some sometime.
Where would you prefer to spend your time. In an enclosed room (Call it submarine) with recicled and scrubbed air, recovered drinking water reprocessed from human wastes eating food loaded with preservatives, frozen for months or dried or on an open pririe next to a creek drinking fresh glacial water, partially eating partly the processed food that you carried with local berries and small hunt? A crude comparison but that is how I feel about it.
Enjoy!
MiddletonMark and jdieck summed it up very well IMO. There are things that build up that no filtration etc... can remove. I also depend on them for replenishment of trace elements. My tanks look better with frequent water changes like others stated. The differences are subtle but when one is in tune with one's aquarium those subtle things are obvious
Chris
Chris
Anemonebuff
New member
I change water every few months. 12-18 gallons each change. Some needs to be changed IMO. The frequency and size will differ for everyone.
supertech3
New member
IMO a water change to replace trace elements is not only probably cheaper than buying all the solutions needed to replicate what is missing from your tank,but removing the some waste is also accomplished with the water change.
raddogz
Premium Member
I do water changes about once a month to a month and a half. I have a bare-bottom tank (let's not turn this into a dsb vs. bb debate please), ridiculous amount of flow, and an incredibly over-sized skimmer. I dose kalk via the top-off water, and periodically add trace elements as needed.
My corals and fish are doing very well in this tank so I don't worry too much about it.
I also have a nano tank where if I don't do a water change at least every two weeks the corals are very very unhappy with me.
I'll go against the grain (its boring when everyone agrees) and support jamesbburgess in his low water change schedule...
The system has to be setup right though including a low bioload, a large refugium with various macros-- plants are amazing filters. Since he has a large tank and feeds lightly (the macros and pods are growing in the system) the tank is a somewhat closed system with alot of nutrients taken up and held by the critters and macros...since some of the macros are going back to the fish as food (tangs) then nutrient importing would be low...
A calcium reactor will add significant trace elements back to the water also.
A good skimmer and macro harvesting will export more nutrients
A large water volume also would help.... Dilution is the solution to polution.
Doing a sizeable water change occasionally (every few months) would restore some balance if things get too far out of whack...
I'm not supporting abandoning water changes... but a low bioload, big tank, and proper setup with less often water changes can be healthier then an over stocked, undermaintained (hardware and husbandry) that does frequent water changes...
Everybody has a different tank-- this hobby is constantly evolving..... I'm not arrogant enough to say that it can't be done...it has been done and succesfully.... I would hardly recommend it for a newbie though... myself included...
The system has to be setup right though including a low bioload, a large refugium with various macros-- plants are amazing filters. Since he has a large tank and feeds lightly (the macros and pods are growing in the system) the tank is a somewhat closed system with alot of nutrients taken up and held by the critters and macros...since some of the macros are going back to the fish as food (tangs) then nutrient importing would be low...
A calcium reactor will add significant trace elements back to the water also.
A good skimmer and macro harvesting will export more nutrients
A large water volume also would help.... Dilution is the solution to polution.
Doing a sizeable water change occasionally (every few months) would restore some balance if things get too far out of whack...
I'm not supporting abandoning water changes... but a low bioload, big tank, and proper setup with less often water changes can be healthier then an over stocked, undermaintained (hardware and husbandry) that does frequent water changes...
Everybody has a different tank-- this hobby is constantly evolving..... I'm not arrogant enough to say that it can't be done...it has been done and succesfully.... I would hardly recommend it for a newbie though... myself included...
Just a couple of points........An aquarium with lots of macro will produce lots of DOC's. More reason for water changes IMO. Also if a tang is eating the macro and it is not being removed you aren't really removing what you are trying to take out. The tang is just pooping most of them back in the water
Chris
Chris
wakeboarder2342
Member
I will have agree on some level to everything that has been said.
Also just wanted to point out that i do not feed my macro to my tangs, i actually dont feed them anything but when i do it is the occasional sheet of nori.
Every few weeks i harvest an unimaginable amount of macro from the fuge. Im not talking a few handfuls i am talking several pounds!! my 30 gallon fuge is 1 continous dense mass of macro and must be harvested or it starts to block the light and kills itself! I believe this is an excellant source of nutrient export.
I will still stand by my earlier statement, weekly water changes IMO are not necessary if the proper setup and stocking levels are maintained.
Again the only way we will ever put this issue to rest is if someone sets up 2 identicle tanks and evaluates them over a 3-5 year period to see the true differneces.
Come on now i know one of you guys isnt doing anything for the next 3-5 years, take the challange!!!
In the end i guess if weekly waterchanges work for you then keep them up, there are so many differnt ways to be successful in this hobby and i dont know that any 1 has been proven the best.
The only sad thing is some of you will be getting a xmas card from instant ocean and guys like me wont be getting anything!! however on my last bucket of instant ocean there was a tshirt in the bottom!!!!
Also just wanted to point out that i do not feed my macro to my tangs, i actually dont feed them anything but when i do it is the occasional sheet of nori.
Every few weeks i harvest an unimaginable amount of macro from the fuge. Im not talking a few handfuls i am talking several pounds!! my 30 gallon fuge is 1 continous dense mass of macro and must be harvested or it starts to block the light and kills itself! I believe this is an excellant source of nutrient export.
I will still stand by my earlier statement, weekly water changes IMO are not necessary if the proper setup and stocking levels are maintained.
Again the only way we will ever put this issue to rest is if someone sets up 2 identicle tanks and evaluates them over a 3-5 year period to see the true differneces.
Come on now i know one of you guys isnt doing anything for the next 3-5 years, take the challange!!!
In the end i guess if weekly waterchanges work for you then keep them up, there are so many differnt ways to be successful in this hobby and i dont know that any 1 has been proven the best.
The only sad thing is some of you will be getting a xmas card from instant ocean and guys like me wont be getting anything!! however on my last bucket of instant ocean there was a tshirt in the bottom!!!!
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6621795#post6621795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishdoc11
Just a couple of points........An aquarium with lots of macro will produce lots of DOC's. More reason for water changes IMO. Also if a tang is eating the macro and it is not being removed you aren't really removing what you are trying to take out. The tang is just pooping most of them back in the water
Chris
My point was that if you feed tangs cultivated macro (if you grow something they can eat), you can reduce the amount of external seaweed you need to feed and therefore reduce the nitrate imported to the system--- I wasn't proposing you stop exporting macros just recycling some back as food since the net nitrate gain by doing this would be 0...
IMO its trying to achieve some sort of balance (like the ocean)--- yes we can never reproduce this in our homes, but I think we should strive to limit nutrient import if possible (without starving your fish)... this is just another way... I don't think this should be limited to a low/no water change system also--it would benefit any tank---
Just my opinion....
