Way beyond my expertise...APEX
- Thread starter zakk
- Start date
zakk
New member
holy crap
$180 in shipping, tax and of course "BROKERAGE" to get the apex up to canukistan via UPS.
Not sure if an apex is in my future or not. Neptune was cool about it, but was well aware of the charges, they should mention somehow that the unit is $550 in the US, but $750 if you plan to ship it north of the border.
Ordering from J&L is almost the same price when you add in shipping and taxes .... damn.
$180 in shipping, tax and of course "BROKERAGE" to get the apex up to canukistan via UPS.
Not sure if an apex is in my future or not. Neptune was cool about it, but was well aware of the charges, they should mention somehow that the unit is $550 in the US, but $750 if you plan to ship it north of the border.
Ordering from J&L is almost the same price when you add in shipping and taxes .... damn.
jimmyj7090
aka John K
Huh?
That's crazy. Mine cost $499 USD at a LFS less than 100 miles south of the Border.. (New hampshire)
That's crazy. Mine cost $499 USD at a LFS less than 100 miles south of the Border.. (New hampshire)
zakk
New member
Yep, $590 was the invoice (I ordered the ORP probe with it), which included $30 shipping. The package came $150 due for taxes and brokerage. Duty and taxes -may- account for ~$90 of that, the rest is good ole UPS raping.
jimmyj7090
aka John K
That's terrible. Maybe you should take a long drive south 
zakk
New member
That's terrible. Maybe you should take a long drive south
Heh, should I mention our gas is at something like $6 a gallon? I love my lincoln mkx but she's thirsty
If the RKE was just a bit better, I'd just order that from BRS. Oh if only they stocked the apex!!!
Thatgrimguy
New member
The easy way to plumb this system is to use two separate return pumps sitting in the same sump... Just a thought. Would allow you to split the tanks in an emergency, would give you plenty of flow, and isn't that expensive.
Don't let common practice get you away the power of creativity and get you away from a smaller central sump. I run 3 tanks + cryptic tank, use to be 7 off of a 40g, with a total of 400+g of water volume.
There are many things you can do to reduce run off. All of the usual things that people suggest, but one thing I used that did just great is your PVC certainly can be part of your holding system during a power outage. In my case, there was a pretty reasonable amount of space in the PVC, and by creating natural 'wells' in the PVC, you can use it to hold water too. with 400g+ of tank I only had a 15g increase in water volume in my 40g sump. One of my tanks is a macro tank, i.e. refuge..so I wouldn't try to use a 40g as a fuge for all that water...but in terms of holding tanks....a little creativity will go along ways.
In additional thing I used, and still use is a remote water hold vessel that is part of my ATO. It is excellent for a number of reasons, and it increases the holding volume during power outages.
There are many things you can do to reduce run off. All of the usual things that people suggest, but one thing I used that did just great is your PVC certainly can be part of your holding system during a power outage. In my case, there was a pretty reasonable amount of space in the PVC, and by creating natural 'wells' in the PVC, you can use it to hold water too. with 400g+ of tank I only had a 15g increase in water volume in my 40g sump. One of my tanks is a macro tank, i.e. refuge..so I wouldn't try to use a 40g as a fuge for all that water...but in terms of holding tanks....a little creativity will go along ways.
In additional thing I used, and still use is a remote water hold vessel that is part of my ATO. It is excellent for a number of reasons, and it increases the holding volume during power outages.
zakk
New member
So like a big rain barrel or something?
Sounds like you have a sump, then another sump (the macro tank). Actually if the remote hold vessel can hold water in case of emerg, maybe that's like 3 sumps
zakk
New member
Seems feasible, although I wonder if external pumps would be better for the upper tank, since they'll have to push a bit of water up more than 12 feet at a good GPH, and I assume pumps llike that make some heat. Electricity draw will have to be scrutinized too, just how much will it cost running pumps like that 24/7 as opposed to 2 sumps.
A thought I had was using only 1 overflow on the upper tank, and plumbing the second one to the lower tank on some sort of solenoid/relay system. So with a push of a button the water from the upper tank can slowly mix with the lower, and vice versa. Just run it an hour a day or so (or let the apex do it). Two separate systems, but a mix valve.... with an override command if the apex sees that one tank is really wonky for some reason.
So like a big rain barrel or something?
Sounds like you have a sump, then another sump (the macro tank). Actually if the remote hold vessel can hold water in case of emerg, maybe that's like 3 sumps
A sump is essentiall a place to hold your equipment..or in your case (and mine) the place to merge water columns and hold your equipment.
A fuge is a different beast, although many people put small ones in their sumps, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
My fuge is just that, a fuge...I just have it on a 55g and keep it clean like any other tank..it is actually my favorite tank on the system. Much less work and quite beautiful IMO. I will admit, I too have a small fuge in my sump though, although I am likely to remove it soon.
As far as the remote holding, not it is actually just a 5g garbage can. It gives me another 3g or so of holding during a power outage. When I had all of my tanks previously I needed the extra 3g or so to keep from overlfowing, and it wound up staying after I no longer needed it because I liked the way it effected the ATO.
The main point is, if constructed properly, your PVC can hold ALOT of water. For example. I had roughly 30 feet between overflow and return PVC running between all my tanks. I setup the PVC to be capable of 'holding' most of the water..that added another 25g of water to my holding volume during a power outage.
zakk
New member
1", normal PVC that most use on their systems. There is alot more space in your pipes than most give credit to. It 's one of the reasons we all worry about sump space because we need more volume to hold all the water that is normally in the pipes. Our tanks don't drain off that much, generally it is the pipes that generate all most of the water during an outage.
Crypsis
yes
My vote is for one sump with two return pumps. No reason to make our systems more complicated than they need to be.
I do like the idea of cascading the water from the top tank to the lower tank but I also like the redundancy of having two return pumps.
I would have duel return pumps going to the upper tank and you could t off the upper tank drain to supply your lower tank with as much turnover as you need with the remainder bypassing the lower tank straight to your sump.
I am a little worried that your lower tank can over flow when the filter sock gets dirty. I would look at redesigning that drain asap. Make sure to have two drains on each of your tanks, one primary and an emergency drain in case the other gets clogged.
I do like the idea of cascading the water from the top tank to the lower tank but I also like the redundancy of having two return pumps.
I would have duel return pumps going to the upper tank and you could t off the upper tank drain to supply your lower tank with as much turnover as you need with the remainder bypassing the lower tank straight to your sump.
I am a little worried that your lower tank can over flow when the filter sock gets dirty. I would look at redesigning that drain asap. Make sure to have two drains on each of your tanks, one primary and an emergency drain in case the other gets clogged.
zakk
New member
Considering the fact that I am currently battling 'red tide' dinos, the idea of mixing the water between two large display tanks is absolutely right out.
I've battled a lot of algae issues in 15 years, but nothing as nasty as dinos. This whole idea is right out the door for me. I don't know how retail setups avoid it, although who knows, maybe that's how I got hit with this outbreak... even with coral rx.
I've battled a lot of algae issues in 15 years, but nothing as nasty as dinos. This whole idea is right out the door for me. I don't know how retail setups avoid it, although who knows, maybe that's how I got hit with this outbreak... even with coral rx.
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