Way OT - Home networking

[Fmellish]

This isn't at all reef related, but you guys are intelligent and many of you work in technology. I've always been able to find lots of help here. Maybe somone can tell me how to do what I want to do, or at minimum point me in the right direction.

My house was built in 2000. I purchased a builder upgrade for data jacks in all the upstairs rooms. Now I want data downstairs and I'm tired of using wi-Fi. The data and voice wiring in my house uses a star topolgy with each jack (data or voice), getting its own dedicated run straight to the wiring closet.

So I open up the wiring closet and I realize, all the voice lines are using cat5 just like the data lines.

So I want to repurpose a voice line in my house and use it for data. It's a straight dedicated run to the jack I will be changing to an RJ45 jack. The voice lines are not terminated in rj45 heads like the data lines. Instead they go into a punchboard. I can see 7 cat5e lines feeding into the voice punchboard, one for each voice jack.

The one I want to repurpose is the one leading to the telephone jack behind the downstairs TV, (family room). So how do I know, (or determine), which one of these 7 punchblock sets goes to the outlet I want to use? And how do I sever it (remove it), from the punchblock without accidentally disconnecting phone service to all existing jacks? I don't want to cut the wrong wire and then have no phone.

Additionally, after successfully removing this line from the punchblock, I would like to take it (and the other data lines) and punch them into an rj-45 female plate. I didn't know such a thing existed back when I moved in so I just took each data line and crimped rj45 heads on them and plugged them into my router. I would prefer the cleanliness of having ports in the wiring closet instead of wires with heads.

So as far as parts go I figure I'm going to need:
- Some kind of device for toning the line to determine which line to remove from the punch block
And then either
- An RJ45 head OR (The RJ45 punch plate + Punch down tools)

Obviously for someone who is versed in these things this is about 15 minutes of work, removing the line from the punch block and either putting an rj45 head on it or wiring it to an RJ45 punch plate.

So where do I get started?

Thanks
Josh

 

[AQUA951]

First of all, you will need to get or buy a toner and tone out the cat5 cable behind the TV, which i'm assuming the cat5 cables are not labeled. After you find/tone out the cable that goes from your jack behind your TV to the 110 block, you can either cut it or pull it out. Once the cat5 cable is out you can then punch it down to the 12 port patch panel. I assume that the 12 port patch panel is going to be inside your closet along with the 110 block as shown above here? If so, you will need to setup a hub/switch/router in there as well. Also, don't forget to replace the rj11 jack behind your tv to a rj45 jack and face plate. Most rj45 accerlator jacks are color coded that you can either go with a A or B connection. Thats how I did it to my house. Let me know if you need anything else...

I'm sure other will chime in.....

Good Luck

 

[Fmellish]

Awesome AQUA951, that is the confirmation I was looking for.

So I need to start looking for a toner now with an rj11 end.

And yes of course I would change the outlet to an RJ45.

As far as getting the line out of the 110 block, I'm not sure where to attach the toner or make the cuts. As you can see from the picture there are multiple layers for each block, the line seems to enter at the under layer and then at the top layer a single wire seems to run a circuit visiting all the blocks.

Am I correct in assuming that I shoudn't mess with the top most layer (circuit) of wires?

It would take pretty small cutters to get underneath the specific block when I find it and carefully cut away the line I need.

Is there some technique I should be aware of?

I've never worked with patch panels before.

Thanks
Josh

 

[Konadog]

Most toners are 2 wire, and you buy the end you want to test with to connect to a toner. At least thats the way it is with mine.

If you don't want to get a toner, you could just leave a phone connected and pull one set of wires at a time (at the punch block) until you find the set that disconnects the phone.

 

[AQUA951]

Most toners are two wires which Konadog have suggested. Some are universal as well, meaning that it'll come with a rj11 end and you can use it to tone cat3/5/6. You can use a butt-set as well to test if the cable is live or not.

Once you tone the cable and find out which one it is. 1) You can either cut it, but make sure you leave enough slack. 2) pull out the 110 connecting adapter from the 110 panel and then yank the cable out.

From the look of the pics above It looks like the first yellow cat5 cables jumps through all the 110 connector that the blue cable is punch down to. Can you verify if thats the cable that goes to your phone company or out to the street?

If it is, you can safely cut the blue cable that you tone out, but like I mention earlier....save enough slack just in case if you messed up and not sure what to do. You can always splice/attach them back up together.

You do not want to mess with the top layer assuming thats the yellow cable. If that goes out to the street and if you pull it...you can potentially disconnect all the jacks that is punch down at the other end. Meaning no dial tone and no phone!

IMO, after you find the RIGHT cable....cut it and leave enough slack. Go and test all the other jacks and make sure that it still has dial tone except the one behind the TV. If the one behind the TV do not have a dial tone then most likely you did it right. Go back to the closet and punch down the one that you cut to the patch panel.

NOTE: Please do this at your own risk. I will not be held accountable if you messed up. You should consult a professional before attempting to tone, cut, re-locate, disconnect, or do any type of work regarding your phone or network lines inside your house.

 

[Fmellish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11248700#post11248700 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AQUA951
Most toners are two wires which Konadog have suggested. Some are universal as well, meaning that it'll come with a rj11 end and you can use it to tone cat3/5/6. You can use a butt-set as well to test if the cable is live or not.

Once you tone the cable and find out which one it is. 1) You can either cut it, but make sure you leave enough slack. 2) pull out the 110 connecting adapter from the 110 panel and then yank the cable out.

From the look of the pics above It looks like the first yellow cat5 cables jumps through all the 110 connector that the blue cable is punch down to. Can you verify if thats the cable that goes to your phone company or out to the street?

If it is, you can safely cut the blue cable that you tone out, but like I mention earlier....save enough slack just in case if you messed up and not sure what to do. You can always splice/attach them back up together.

You do not want to mess with the top layer assuming thats the yellow cable. If that goes out to the street and if you pull it...you can potentially disconnect all the jacks that is punch down at the other end. Meaning no dial tone and no phone!

IMO, after you find the RIGHT cable....cut it and leave enough slack. Go and test all the other jacks and make sure that it still has dial tone except the one behind the TV. If the one behind the TV do not have a dial tone then most likely you did it right. Go back to the closet and punch down the one that you cut to the patch panel.

NOTE: Please do this at your own risk. I will not be held accountable if you messed up. You should consult a professional before attempting to tone, cut, re-locate, disconnect, or do any type of work regarding your phone or network lines inside your house.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

And yes, the yellow line comes from the outside world and runs along the top of all the blocks. I don't know how punch blocks work, how do I remove one of these blocks to release the wires underneath that I need? Or are punch blocks a one time thing, once you punch it in you can't take it out again?

I understand 100% what I need to do, I just don't understand how punch blocks work. I've tried tugging on one of them and they don't pop off.

The cable I need to release (or cut), will be underneath the public wires running along all the tops, so how do I even get to them?

Can I remove all the top wires first and re-seat them after?

Thanks again for all the help I'm going to get a toner tomorrow.

Cheers
Josh

 

[Fmellish]

Well, I'm at a loss.

I plug the tone generator into the phone jack. I go upstairs into the wiring closet and turn on the probe, and every phone wire is singing.

I suspect since they all get hubbed at the punch block, once the tone enters there is travels over all the wires.

SO I have no idea which wire it is, and I have no way to reinsert it if I were to cut the wrong wire.

And tracing the other direction won't really work for the same reason, if I apply a tone in the closet it will travel over all the other wires too, they all intersect at the punch down block.

And even when I grab all the wires before they enter the punch down block they all emit the tone. I suspect since they all run long distances bunched together that maybe that is why the tone seems to be carrying over to the other lines?

Any ideas?


Thanks
josh

 

[Konadog]

josh, you are correct as to the tone being on everything if it still connected. You may "listen" to the whole wire instead of a single wire to see if one may be louder than the others.

You need a punch down tool to reconnect the wires once you pull the off to do it correctly.

 

[Fmellish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11250960#post11250960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Konadog
... You may "listen" to the whole wire instead of a single wire to see if one may be louder than the others.

...

I've tried holding the probe near the 7 phone lines at various places, before they hit the block, on the block, etc., and they all sound the same volume.

How do I use this thing? THis is what I got BTW (sans blue thingy)

If I could find a website that had forums for this stuff i'd move this probably. I feel bad posting this stuff here. You guys are awesome, thanks.

Also I'm using the rj-11 generator cord, but it came with alligator clips for the generator also, should I try to use those?

Thanks
Josh

 

[Konadog]

It sounds like your using it correctly, but because all your wires are connected to each other, the tone is being passed thru everything.

Your going to need a punch down tool to remove and reconnect the wires now.

 

[Fmellish]

Thank you Konadog.

It looks that way.

Was hoping this would be an easy project

Cheers
Josh

 

[Fmellish]

Eureka.

I got it.

I was afraid to try and remove the little wires in the punch panel (top layer). I thought the punch down process was a one time thing, but I tested on some scrap and sure enough you could punch em down and pull em out and punch em back down. I took care to make sure the same nick in the shielding was used.

I noticed the probe sounded a tone on the blue pair across all 7 bridges. And this was feeding back in both directions down every cat5e cable, so all lines carried the tone at equal strength.

So one by one, I removed the blue pair from one bridge at a time seeing if the tone would die. I would lift a pair up, listen and if I still heard the tone in the cables I knew I didn't disconnect the one initiating the tone. I would then punch the cables back in.

Finally I found a pair that when removed from the bridge made the tone stop across all the cables, (except one). Once this pair was lifted I could clearly hear the tone from one line and all others were dead. So I cut that line away from the panel, reseated its top layer blues (to continue the network downstream), and all is good with the world.

I verified I got the right one, and all phones are fine (except at the jack behind the TV).

Thanks guys

Josh

 

[AQUA951]

Glad you found it!!!!

 

[Fmellish]

Yeah regarding this line I got everything hooked up. I also installed two brand new lines in my kitchen, since the wiring closet is above the kitchen. But none of it works.

I don't know what is going wrong. I've wired all the female sockets to 568A, and all the male heads to 568A also.

All the cables look good, all the copper is at the end and well crimped, and all the females look good also, and every line can carry a tone so a signal can go from end to end.

But none of it works.

My XBOX 360 says the network isn't hooked up, my laptop says media disconnected.

Its so frustrating. I've redone all the males and females and still no go. And I'm not in question of my handiwork, I've built lots of cat 5 cables. I put all the cat5 in my upstairs and it all works great.

Something about going from the upstairs panel straight down 10 feet is causing these things not to work. And the cable is cat5e UTP rated for vertical use.

I'm at a loss again. I just installed my 4th jack tonight, and again, its dead. They are all straight runs to the closet a rj45 head on one end and connected to an rj45 jack at the other.

And they all can be toned, the copper is working. This is all brand new cat5e cable and heads and jacks.

*** is happening?

So I'm done with my endeavor to wire the downstairs, all the cables have been pulled all the drywall patched, a new panel put in upstairs, each head and jack painstakingly wired.

The only last thing it could maybe be is the patch cables going from the jacks to the devices, but what are the odds that 4 brand new patch cables are all bad?

I'm so bummed out about this. I don't know what to do.


--edit--

It's not the patch cables I swapped one out with one I know works and still no go.

What else? The jack on my XBOX and Laptop died all of a sudden? Yeah right

Tomorrow it looks like I'll be purchasing a cable tester.

-- edit --

Cheers
JOsh

 

[lowbudget]

do you have a tested for the cable i think they are pretty cheap at frys

 

[Fmellish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11262734#post11262734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lowbudget
do you have a tested for the cable i think they are pretty cheap at frys

I need to get one. I will tomorrow.

But what are the odds that 4 sets of newly made cables aren't working? Even after redoing them all?

It's like gremlins are in my walls stopping all IP traffic.

Cheers
Josh

 

[AQUA951]

Odds are slim that all 4 set is bad. I just want to confirm, but I take it this is how you connect it? Test your network cables as well and make sure all 4 pairs are good.

 

[Fmellish]

Mine is even simpler, I go straight from the back up the keystone jack up through the walls into my upstairs closet and directly into the router.

I haven't had time to install a patch panel yet for my networking lines.

So its RJ45 female at the user's end and an RJ45 male in the closet that is plugging directly into the router.

But yeah your diagram is correct, just remove the patch panel icon for now.

Cheers
Josh

 

[Fmellish]

Maybe when going female on one end and male on the other you're not supposed to use the 568A standard on both ends?

I'll get a cable tester today and if it turns out the jacks are dead, then I'll be stuck, I won't know what to do. I've got 4 jacks all of which I've rewired twice now (just in case).

I should look at my other cables, (the ones I wired up back in 2000 when I bought the place), and see how I wired them up and just copy it. Back then I didn't know about 568A/B, I just wired them up based on pin requirements and everything worked out.

Cheers
Josh

 

[AQUA951]

Double check to make sure if your other "known working" ones are terminated as 568A and not 568B. Your pre-existing may be terminated as 568B?