Ways to introduce Ich to your tank

[RBU1]

Listen i am not trying to start any war. I only wish people that are not sure of things dont just put stuff out there. I have done a good amount of research on ich because I have been thru it WAY too much. I have had to break down my 300 gallon tank twice to remove all my fish. The first time I left my eels in because some people told me they could not host ich. Well I had to break the tank down a second time. Not sure if it was the eels or the fact I was buying fish that I was told were QT'd and treated with chloriquine. After making mistakes twice I now have my own QT and treat all my fish with Prazipro and Cuprmaine. They stay in QT for at least 6 weeks if everything works out as planned. Is it 100% possible to keep ich out I would like to say yes if you take the time to do it right.

 

[stealle]

RBU1 ,if ignorance irritates you please imform me not ridicule me ! thats ignorance . could i possably be wrong ? yes if i am yes i can admit it so please do tell of the way to 100.00000000% erradicate ick . tick tock go !

To recap, it sounds like the way to get rid of ich 100% is to have a fishless display tank for 6 weeks. As for the fish, quarantine for 6 weeks in copper with no signs of ich.

Fishless display + 6 weeks = 100% no ich
Fish + copper treatment + 6 weeks no signs of ich = 100% no ich

 

[jrp1588]

yep. that's the general plan of attack

 

[RBU1]

To recap, it sounds like the way to get rid of ich 100% is to have a fishless display tank for 6 weeks. As for the fish, quarantine for 6 weeks in copper with no signs of ich.

Fishless display + 6 weeks = 100% no ich
Fish + copper treatment + 6 weeks no signs of ich = 100% no ich

Well I would prefer you leave your tank fishless for 12 weeks.
Have a well established QT so ammonia and a cycle would not be a concern
Put the fish in and feed them good for a week with no treatment at all
do a Prazi treatment
Run carbon for a week
Do a Cupramine treatment for 4 weeks at .5 raised SLOWLY slower then instructions state...
Remove copper and either wait another week int he QT or put the fish in the main tank.

 

[jrp1588]

Well, some people have more patience than others. haha, better safe than sorry I suppose. Prazi is a fluke treatment as I understand. right?

 

[RBU1]

Well, some people have more patience than others. haha, better safe than sorry I suppose. Prazi is a fluke treatment as I understand. right?

Correct fluke treatment...

Patience is real important to have.....I learned the hard way.:fun2:

 

[sedor]

I think what iamwrasseman is trying to say is that its just very unlikely that most of the hobbyists out there are going to be able to successfully keep ich out of their system. Rather than be paranoid about the parasite we have to take it for what it is. A healthy fish can easily carry ich and show absolutely no symptoms of it. Yes, you can QT the fish and stress it out with copper unnecessarily for 8 weeks in QT and be absolutely careful to not introduce anything into your tank. If that's your goal then I say that's an excellent job, but most people are not going to be so rigorous.

Ignorance really aggravates me,,,,

I think this comment was a little uncalled for. iamwrasseman did nothing to start a fight. He was simply sharing his opinion, please next time just share yours and try to stay friendly. Its discussion and debate that make this awesome site what it is.

 

[jrp1588]

Any reason why you couldn't run prazi and cupramine at the same time?

 

[RBU1]

I think what iamwrasseman is trying to say is that its just very unlikely that most of the hobbyists out there are going to be able to successfully keep ich out of their system. Rather than be paranoid about the parasite we have to take it for what it is. A healthy fish can easily carry ich and show absolutely no symptoms of it. Yes, you can QT the fish and stress it out with copper unnecessarily for 8 weeks in QT and be absolutely careful to not introduce anything into your tank. If that's your goal then I say that's an excellent job, but most people are not going to be so rigorous.


I think this comment was a little uncalled for. iamwrasseman did nothing to start a fight. He was simply sharing his opinion, please next time just share yours and try to stay friendly. Its discussion and debate that make this awesome site what it is.

In my opinion QT is part of being a succesful hobiest. If your not taking the time to do it eventually it will bite you no matter how healthy your fish are. What I don't like and I will repeat myself is when someone posts something that is untrue and not factual that may cause a new person to have further issues then neccesary. If you want to live with a parasite in your tank that one day can show up and wipe out your tank thats your choice. Again I am speaking from expierience not just because I like to type.

 

[RBU1]

Any reason why you couldn't run prazi and cupramine at the same time?

Some people do it. I prefer to use chemicals seperate and if you call Hikari, the makers of Prazi, they will provide you the same advice. But like I said, some people on RC do use both at the same time.

 

[sedor]

I agree that a QT is an excellent practice. Lets face it though, most hobbyists aren't going to use one...especially the newer ones. This isn't really a QT topic though. What sandgoby was really asking was if ich can travel in on something other than fish...the answer is yes. Then he asks, does anyone have any tips...it is going to be a big PITA to get all the fish out of the tank. First of all, lets say he has a 20G QT, its not a good idea to put a fish tank full of fish into such a small area. Its impossible to treat ich with copper, or even hypo in less than 6 weeks, but the spacing issues would likely kill them before that. Personally, I have had fish battle ich by themselves simply by eating quality nutritious foods and maintaining a suitable environment. That is my tip, what's successful for me might not be successful for you, but there is always more than one way to the answer. Again, this is not so much a QT debate because sandgoby already uses one, we don't need to convince him of that. Its just should he stick a tank full of fish in there?

 

[RBU1]

When my 300 came down the second time I went out and got a 125 to use as a treatment tank. That is used today as my QT.

 

[sandgoby]

Wow, leave the thread for a day.......

Well at least we got lots of responses! I use a QT religiously and treat all incoming fish to my system. I guess either it was there already and I did not notice it or it must have hiked in on the rock or coral that I have placed in the tank recently. It is a shame that with all this technology at our disposal that a cure or treatment has not surfaced. To now have to tear down the tank and stress the fish back and forth from a QT again. I believe that my tank has reached a point were all the fish are happy and the tank is perfectly balanced :sad2:.

So just a quick point that I would like to clarify, can the parasite that causes Ich remain dormant under any circumstances. From what everyone here has stated that without fish the parasite cannot survive. There seems to be some confusion with this point.

One more thing I would love to clear up is regarding cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. Do they or don't they eat parasites like ich from fish? In the forum here I have read both sides. Is there any proof to either argument?

I am just going to throw this one out there to see what everyone thinks. As I have been trying to avoid tearing down the tank. I have read a fair bit about different filtration methods of removing the Ich and or Parasites from the water. For example, Ozone, UV sterilization and Diatom filters. Has anyone had any success with removing Ich though any of these methods?

Thanks
S

 

[jrp1588]

UV sterilizers are supposed to help prevent a major outbreak, but it won't eradicate it. i'm not familiar with the rest

 

[RBU1]

Wow, leave the thread for a day.......

Well at least we got lots of responses! I use a QT religiously and treat all incoming fish to my system. I guess either it was there already and I did not notice it or it must have hiked in on the rock or coral that I have placed in the tank recently. It is a shame that with all this technology at our disposal that a cure or treatment has not surfaced. To now have to tear down the tank and stress the fish back and forth from a QT again. I believe that my tank has reached a point were all the fish are happy and the tank is perfectly balanced :sad2:.

So just a quick point that I would like to clarify, can the parasite that causes Ich remain dormant under any circumstances. From what everyone here has stated that without fish the parasite cannot survive. There seems to be some confusion with this point.

One more thing I would love to clear up is regarding cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. Do they or don't they eat parasites like ich from fish? In the forum here I have read both sides. Is there any proof to either argument?

I am just going to throw this one out there to see what everyone thinks. As I have been trying to avoid tearing down the tank. I have read a fair bit about different filtration methods of removing the Ich and or Parasites from the water. For example, Ozone, UV sterilization and Diatom filters. Has anyone had any success with removing Ich though any of these methods?

Thanks
S

From the reading I have done ich must perform its life cycle. Raising temp does nothing to marine ich. My guess in your situation would be either a fish got thru your QT that had it in the gills and you did not see it or in a rare case you introduced it in the shell of a snail or coral.

I also read that cleaner shrimp, wrasses and gobies really do nothing for the hobiest. In the wild they remove dead tissue and foreign bodies from fish. I think in our aquariums they can not keep up with the amount of ich that can be in our systems.

In my opinion UV does work but you need a properly sized unit for it to work if your system is 400 gallons total a 200 watt unit would be what you want.

Your best option is what you don't want to do. I know its a PITA been there twice. But if you really don't want to do this then feed good keep your water quality excellent and hope for the best. I spend a decent amount of money on my fish that I am really not willing to take the chance anymore.

I like the info here...http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

[sandgoby]

I like the info here...http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

RBU1,
Great read! Interesting on several points including this one.

"14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has "˜worn itself out' and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months."

I am tempted to leave it alone as the tank must have had Ich for at least 2 to 3 months already without any new fish added to the tank during that time. I have a UV that I have brought on line which as stated should make it more manageable for the fish. Unless of course I see that the parasite gains a real foothold on the fish. As it is right now except for the wrasse the others do not seem to be bothered by the Ich (Eating well, behaving well). I will continue to observe the tank over the next several days.

Thanks Again.

S

 

[sedor]

Personally, unless you are experiencing an outbreak of ich in the tank and the fish are obviously suffering, I would just leave them be and let it runs its course. If the fish aren't eating or the "spots" are taking over their bodies, then obviously further action is required. I don't want to argue about that philosophy, i'll let you decide what to do, but it has worked for me in the past. On a side note, I do soak all my food in selcon and garlic juice though neither cures the problem, they both help the fish's immune system, which is what the fish uses to fight the parasite.

Ich doesn't necessarily remain dormant, it has a life cycle. There is a lot of information on the web so i'll let you find that info somewhere else. Just google, saltwater ich life cycle and a zillion pages will come up. But no it doesn't lie dormant and it will complete its life cycle and die off within 6 - 8 weeks in a fishless tank.

The stage that ich is in when we can actually see it is the cyst form that is a white spot on the fish, that soon will fall off to the substrate and new little parasites will be born. Think of the white spots in terms of an egg (though its not actually an egg). Cleaner shrimp and wrasses will eat those cysts, but the actual parasite is living under the skin of the fish that they can't get to. In other words, they help, but they can't properly cure the problem on their own.

UV and Ozone (if a quality piece of equipment is used) will kill the parasite in its free swimming stage, but nothing else. So it can't do anything about whats on the fish or the substrate etc.

Overall, good feeding, cleaner shrimps or wrasse, uv or ozone will make quite an army against ich and will do a lot for preventing and handling outbreaks in your system, but overall the only way to cure it is with hypo or copper for the fishes, and the absence of fish in the tank you want to cure. Its a lot of work, but if you want a truly ich free tank its the way to go. Otherwise, like I mentioned just wait it out and see what happens. I have even had delicate fish like my copperbanded butterfly have an ich outbreak and beat it on its own. If you do decide to treat one fish, you will have to go ahead and do them all otherwise your efforts will be pointless. Good luck.

 

[sandgoby]

Ok there may be hope for a cure after all!:dance: I know that this is for Freshwater Ich and they are different but you never know.

http://thewere42.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/ich-discovery-could-yield-new-ways-to-treat-devastating-freshwater-fish-parasite/

Lets hope that it develops into a cure for MI also!

S

 

[KingwoodMarcia]

I bought a powder blue tang, kept it in a QT for 3 weeks. No sign of ich at all. Fish was eating well and looked nice and fat. I put him in my 150 gallon tank and WAMMOOO, he has ich now!!!!

No other fish in the main display showed any signs of ich. I believe ich is always in the tank, it just likes the new guy. I will give him a few days and see if the ich starts to clear up. I know if I put him back in the QT, after 2hrs of trying to catch him among the live rock, the ich will clear up after treatment.

When I put him back into the tank, he would get it again until he fights it off.

My other tangs and angel fish in the tank, at this point, show no signs of ich. All fish are eating well.

To me, ich is just one of those things in the hobby that comes with the intro of a new fish. Some fish are just more prone to get it.

No, I am not going to treat my whole tank. I have done that before with Ich Attack and the Ich went away, but spent a ton of money doing water changes to get the water clear and fresh again.

The cost of water changes = the cost of a new powder tang.

Just my .02.

 

[jrp1588]

The new tang gets ich because at some point you introduced ich into your tank. It could have been ages ago, and your fish don't necessarily need to show symptoms. You had a low level infestation that likely hid in the fish's gills. The new tang was stressed, so that did make him more susceptible. So yes, ich is always present in your system once it has been introduced UNTIL you eliminate it through quarantine and a fallow period