We all start somewhere... right?

What did you do with the rock you removed? By removing rock your takeing away your biological filter which keeps ammonia levels down.

Slow down and take your time or you will end up with alot of dead fish in your future. Im guessing your not quarintineing any of your fish either?
 
shifty51008 said:
What did you do with the rock you removed? By removing rock your takeing away your biological filter which keeps ammonia levels down.

Slow down and take your time or you will end up with alot of dead fish in your future. Im guessing your not quarintineing any of your fish either?
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
You'll be lucky if the tank doesn't already have ich or brook.

As previously mentioned, cycling the tank with fish has fallen out of favor. Most nowadays recommend a "fishless cycle" using another source of ammonia to feed the bacteria. If you're in a hurry, you can add bacteria in a bottle to speed things up as well. However, you're already committed to (and in the process of) killing some fish just to get your tank up and running, so let's move on...

Now, let's talk quarantine. Once you introduce ONE fish to the tank that carries Ich, do you know what you'll need to do to rid the tank of it? How does 72 days with no fish sound? Since it sounds like you want some bigger, fancier fish down the line, please make sure no more fish go into the tank without a fair stint in your QT.

Find that "setting up" sticky, it really is the gateway to a huge wealth of great information. It's a guarantee you will learn some valuable things while searching through it.

Good luck, I hope you end up with the reef tank of your dreams!
 
snorvich said:
What he said.
Click to expand...
Put it back in. I needed to pull it out to get to the fish. It wasn't out of the tank an hour.

I used bottled bacteria (Fluval Biological Booster) to start the cycle, but it required a fish. Fishless cycling is the "humain" thing to do, but, captive bred $5 damsels aren't hurting anyone.

I do not have a quarantine tank. I do not have room for one. I live in an apartment that's already over crowded with baby toys everywhere.

Like I said, I did not know and fell victim to the BS the lady at the LFS sold me on. I'm not planning on any more fish till the tank is finished cycling.
 
If you aren't going to quarantine I would strongly recommend that you put in some time now learning about common fish diseases. Your fish are going to get sick, if you at least know the basic symptoms and treatments beforehand you will be in a much better position when that happens. Otherwise it is pretty much guaranteed that you'll be posting "why did all my fish die last night???'!?" in the next few months.

SW tanks are a delicate balance. One of the best things you can do is minimize stress and keep them fat so their natural immunity is strong. That means not overstocking the tank and not putting together fish that are evolved to be predator and prey for each other, or compete for resources. That'll require some research on stocking the tank. Again, with a domino damsel established in there the fish you can realistically add are minimal (if any).

If I were you I'd be feeling defensive, like people are lecturing etc. but it's really just that we want to see you enjoy the hobby. It's not that complicated, or expensive, if you learn how it works. A loooooot of folks take shortcuts, wing it, try to push the boundaries of basic care for tanks, and hope they get lucky; they are the ones that quit after a few months and tell everyone that the hobby is stupid and hard. We are just trying to help you not be that guy <3
 
There is so much good advise available today that was not available even 10 years ago.. all you have to do is go find it... when I started my first fish tank back in the early 60's... the library was the only place to get good information... a few years ago, when I started my first salt water tank... I studied and read a year before making a purchase... fine sites like this one gave me the information I needed to get off to the correct start... I made some mistakes, but not many.... I had a few minor issues with algae and cynao but nothing that wasn't relatively easy to eradicate with a little work... a lot of planning, study and a boat load of patience got me off to a good start... FWIW...I'm currently in to day 10 of a cycle on my 3rd salt water tank( bringing my total to 6 Fresh, salt and pond ) ... if you read the "new to the hobby" forum... it reads like a broken record...time and again people make the same mistakes.... the advise here is solid... and rarely is malicious... everyone here wants you to succeed... we ( as hobbyists)want what's best for everyone involved ...including the fish.... a small piece of table shrimp or a pinch of dried dish food to provide ammonia is a lot cheaper and more practical than sacrificing a fish.. it's the ethical thing to do especially when our hobby is often scrutinized as being un-ethical...

I've said enough and don't want to seem like this is a lecture.. good luck with your build...looking foreword to seeing pictures as your tank matures.
 
CStrickland said:
If you aren't going to quarantine I would strongly recommend that you put in some time now learning about common fish diseases. Your fish are going to get sick, if you at least know the basic symptoms and treatments beforehand you will be in a much better position when that happens. Otherwise it is pretty much guaranteed that you'll be posting "why did all my fish die last night???'!?" in the next few months.

SW tanks are a delicate balance. One of the best things you can do is minimize stress and keep them fat so their natural immunity is strong. That means not overstocking the tank and not putting together fish that are evolved to be predator and prey for each other, or compete for resources. That'll require some research on stocking the tank. Again, with a domino damsel established in there the fish you can realistically add are minimal (if any).

If I were you I'd be feeling defensive, like people are lecturing etc. but it's really just that we want to see you enjoy the hobby. It's not that complicated, or expensive, if you learn how it works. A loooooot of folks take shortcuts, wing it, try to push the boundaries of basic care for tanks, and hope they get lucky; they are the ones that quit after a few months and tell everyone that the hobby is stupid and hard. We are just trying to help you not be that guy <3
Click to expand...

^This is all excellent advice.

I'll echo his closing sentiments by saying that this hobby can be really, really enjoyable, but there is a lot of bad advice floating around out there that always seems like good advice, and the good advice often seems unexciting or irksome. Most new hobbyists think "why wait when I can do everything as I want right now?" But for those of us that have been doing this for even a short time, we know that this way of thinking can be incredibly expensive and frustrating. We'd just like to protect you from some of that, and your livestock too! We're all marine animal devotees on this site and I hope you can see that we really are trying to help. Best of luck!
 
I do see and appreciate all of the help. I'm not bitter or sore about any of the advice given. I didn't want the damsels and still don't. They will not stay. They will be rehomed if they survive the entirety of the cycle process.

I will be following and paying attention to sickness symptoms like previously mentioned. A QT tank is out of the question at the moment.

I have compiled a livestock list and am still researching how they will work together, and what order they should be put in the tank. Obviously not going to add them all at once. More like 1 every couple months over the course of a year or so.
 
My livestock list:

1 Dwarf Lion fish
2 Clown fish
1 Powder Brown Tang
1 Dogface puffer
1 Squirrelfish
2 Green Chromis
1 Foxface
1 Chocolate Chip Starfish
1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
1 Sunset Butterfly
1 Dwarf flame angel
1 Bicolor Dottyback
1 Green Mandarin fish


Keep in mind, I do NOT intend on large quantities of coral. There will be an anenome or two for the clowns (if they take), and maybe a few soft corals.
 
At the top of forum there is a check here before you buy thread. "Snorvich" is our resident compatability expert. If you post there with your tank specs, he will give you his recommendations on your list.

Personally I think some of the fish will out grow the tank and compatability issues.
 
gone fishin said:
At the top of forum there is a check here before you buy thread. "Snorvich" is our resident compatability expert. If you post there with your tank specs, he will give you his recommendations on your list.

Personally I think some of the fish will out grow the tank and compatability issues.
Click to expand...

I fully agree. That list will probably get whittled down to about half of its contents, though for a first-jump list with no previous experience, it isn't all that terrible.
 
toothybugs said:
I fully agree. That list will probably get whittled down to about half of its contents, though for a first-jump list with no previous experience, it isn't all that terrible.
Click to expand...
I hope not. Half of the reason of setting up this tank, was because I wanted these particular fish. I understand they all don't get along, but I'm open to rehoming some of them, as needed in the future.
 
LeadFootedRacer said:
I hope not. Half of the reason of setting up this tank, was because I wanted these particular fish. I understand they all don't get along, but I'm open to rehoming some of them, as needed in the future.
Click to expand...

If those are your must-have fish then you should at least get a bigger tank.

Just off the top of my head I think: the tang and the puffer are for 6 foot tanks; the shrimp and starfish are on the menu for a couple of your fish; the lionfish venom is no joke; and the puffer, butterfly, and mandarin have very specific diets. Of course you can always find someone who says it can work, like I bet that dingbat at the lfs is all about putting tangs in little tanks and then rehoming them down the line :rolleyes:

I'm sure you can find something that will work out better. Remember that all of your risk is multiplied because you aren't QTing, so the tang has even more chance of being sick from ich cause it is underhoused etc. The Snorvich thread linked above is a great resource, you can also look at some tank of the month winners that have 90's and see what they have going on.
 
CStrickland said:
Of course you can always find someone who says it can work, like I bet that dingbat at the lfs is all about putting tangs in little tanks and then rehoming them down the line :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

All the stores I've been to, buy back large fish, as well as local guys on a local forum. Is this really not a proper method of rehoming a fish, once it's either outgrown the tank, or I choose to get something else that doesn't mix well with it?

I've got a buddy with a 48" 120g that has a powder blue, powder brown, 2 chromis, 2 clowns, 2 skunk shrimp, a foxface, and an angel. (The blue one with the white stripes that look like a finger print) they are doing phenomenal and couldn't be happier.
 
The big thing is just because one fish of a species will do fine in a tank, I will use the dogface for this, doesn't mean that it will be fine with something else there. A dogface should be fine in a 90 individually. But cram the other space full and you took that space largely away. Like putting 12 dogs in a bedroom.
 
toothybugs said:
The big thing is just because one fish of a species will do fine in a tank, I will use the dogface for this, doesn't mean that it will be fine with something else there. A dogface should be fine in a 90 individually. But cram the other space full and you took that space largely away. Like putting 12 dogs in a bedroom.
Click to expand...
THIS, I understand. That's why I mentioned the rehoming. Say I pick up half my list over the course of 3 or 4 months. The smaller fish. Whole bunch of em. Love them. Take care of them. Enjoy them for a year. Then decide I'm ready for a Volition Lionfish and rehome all the little guys, either to a LFS or locally, and pick up the Lion and something else. No harm, right? Not out to make profit. Hell, they'd be free to whomever wanted them.
 
I don't think I understand your philosophy on pets......but maybe I'm just remembering all the nights I stayed up when the power was out...lol
 
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