I know that the urge to jump is strong have to slow my wife down all the time I have a 240 gallon tank and wont add more than two fish a month to it and my fish are family let one hide for a day and my wife has me on the hunt fish are like all other pets if your not going to be attached to them dont get them
We all start somewhere... right?
- Thread starter LeadFootedRacer
- Start date
heathlindner25
New member
yeah don't really want to go out on a rant here,but the little things you see in that glass box depend on your life bud,and your outlook on animals scare me.
stingeragent
New member
I'm gonna agree with most of the advice on here. I usually try to go against convention. ( I have a 1.5in hippo in a 40B. He's happy for now, eats heavily, and spends all his time with my clown). However, I'm not going to let him get to be 8 in long and still in the same tank. That's a small and IMHO acceptable compromise. That being said I wouldn't put a puffer, hippo, powder blue, fox face, trigger all piled in that same tank no matter how big they were. As to the fish relative to the dog or cat comparison. I can understand you thinking you can play with a dog or cat or whatever but you can't a fish. However, keeping these types of fish alive and healthy is a much larger and more expensive commitment. If you don't agree, then why are you trying to keep them in the first place? As all others have said patience is the key. It really is. Maybe today for you it isn't. If your still in the hobby 6 months from now you will know it is. At that point you will have either learned the lesson, or you will have lost a lot of fish, money, etc, and ended up selling off everything on craigslist. I know you want your "dream list" of fish right now, but it does you absolutely no good, if you go buy all your dream fish, and then they all die on you because you haven't took the time to learn proper husbandry, etc. I can go buy a 1000 dollar AKC purebred dog tomorrow, but if I don't know that it needs to eat dog food and I just look at it, and then it dies, what was the point ( dog food was a poor analogy but you get the idea). Also wanted to add, not all two fish are alike. The fish that do great in your friends tank, you could go get all his fish, put them in your tank, and it may all go to he**. There's so many variables, rock work, established territories, feeding regimes, etc that can affect each individual fish. My first tank was a 20 long. After the cycle my g/f had to have a yellow tang, so we went down and bought one. Acclimated him, put him in the tank, and immediately I could tell he was miserable. Swimming back and forth against the back glass constantly. He went back the next day. Now it could have turned out, put that same fish in my neighbors 20L and he might have been fine for a while. Moral is with wildlife, you can't expect to easily duplicate everyone's experience as how it will play out in your own tank. I am of the opinion, if you really want to do this, do it right. You posted on here in the first place so you obviously have questions, and want to know what the more experienced people have to say. But it is up to you how to you take that advice. You could never post on here again, go get all your fish you want tomorrow and no one here will be the wiser, and whatever happens with your tank happens. It may fail or you may be the luckiest guy around and it may be everything you wanted it to be. Some things on here are matter of opinion, or in there experience, but if 30 people tell you to be patient, that's a fairly good indicator coming from most likely a broad spectrum of experience.
Edit: Sorry one more thing and then I'll shut up. You did mention keeping a fish or two and enjoying them for a year or so and rehoming to get something else. That is definitely a better plan then just getting everything you want at once, but you have to remember. You have to catch the fish to rehome it. Not sure if you've tried to catch one of those blue damsels yet, but if you haven't, your in for a cussing out loud treat.
Edit: Sorry one more thing and then I'll shut up. You did mention keeping a fish or two and enjoying them for a year or so and rehoming to get something else. That is definitely a better plan then just getting everything you want at once, but you have to remember. You have to catch the fish to rehome it. Not sure if you've tried to catch one of those blue damsels yet, but if you haven't, your in for a cussing out loud treat.
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LeadFootedRacer
New member
I do not plan to have my livestock list all at once. I know some are not compatible with others. I want to set it up where I phase through them, so I get to enjoy each one on the list, at the appropriate times. Never once wanted to put them all together.
Like this:
A, AB, ABC, BCD, BCDE, BCDEF, CDEFG, DEFG, DEFGH, DEFGI and so on. If that makes any sense at all. LoL
I look at fish keeping more like gardening. You bust your butt to put together a beautiful display, keep it well fed, well groomed, and well cared for. When a flower dies, you do not cry. You do not lose sleep. You look into the cause, remedy it, and plant another.
Dogs to me, are like people. I'm not a cat person although I have been living with one for 4 years now. Maybe my views aren't the same as yours, but I don't look at fish keeping as close to the heart as other pets. I've had my 20 gallon freshwater in my kids' bedroom for most of the year this year. Lost some, gave birth to hundreds, sold some, traded some, let them get eaten, it is what it is. I was not upset when my angelfish died. It happens. It's life. The tank was a little on the small side for it, I knew, I took a chance. I moved on. Maybe I'm a monster? I don't know.
Now, back to the original topic here... will a 20% water change this Thursday, hurt the cycle? Looking to make Thursday mornings my fish tank maintenance day.
Like this:
A, AB, ABC, BCD, BCDE, BCDEF, CDEFG, DEFG, DEFGH, DEFGI and so on. If that makes any sense at all. LoL
I look at fish keeping more like gardening. You bust your butt to put together a beautiful display, keep it well fed, well groomed, and well cared for. When a flower dies, you do not cry. You do not lose sleep. You look into the cause, remedy it, and plant another.
Dogs to me, are like people. I'm not a cat person although I have been living with one for 4 years now. Maybe my views aren't the same as yours, but I don't look at fish keeping as close to the heart as other pets. I've had my 20 gallon freshwater in my kids' bedroom for most of the year this year. Lost some, gave birth to hundreds, sold some, traded some, let them get eaten, it is what it is. I was not upset when my angelfish died. It happens. It's life. The tank was a little on the small side for it, I knew, I took a chance. I moved on. Maybe I'm a monster? I don't know.
Now, back to the original topic here... will a 20% water change this Thursday, hurt the cycle? Looking to make Thursday mornings my fish tank maintenance day.
Quoted for hilarity!
LeadFootedRacer
New member
I have nor tired to catch one yet. If it's anything like trying to net freshwater mollies, I am prepared to spend a whole day kicking and screaming. LoL
heathlindner25
New member
dogs are like people but fish aren't.....life is life, your line is screwed, I'm done reading this thread.
LeadFootedRacer
New member
Does feeding my son's bearded dragon live crickets bother you? Or what about when I used to feed my dad's piranhas hot dogs and gold fish back in the day? I like meat that bleeds and I watch football... I mean seriously dude, why so pushy about this?
stingeragent
New member
I can see both of your points. Most of us eat hamburgers which involves killing a cow. On the other end, most people don't eat reef fishes. I think a lot of it is in the perspective. But here's what it is. Would you rather raise a cow, you know is going to be slaughtered. You feed it good , keep it watered, take it to the vet when needed, make sure it has a good life up until that point, OR, raise a cow you know is gonna be slaughtered, keep it starved, beat it, so it has a miserable life up until that point. I know that doesn't fully translate into keeping reef fish in an aquarium, but if you are going to keep them, you want to do the best you can for them. I used to work for a cable company. I'd be in at least 10 strangers houses a day, every day. I once saw an at least 8 inch koi, in a 10 gallon tank that was half full. Like the fish was literally taking up almost all the water that was in the tank. Why on earth would you keep a fish in such condition? Why not just get rid of it? I think the point is, if you are going to keep an animal whatever it is, you want that animal to have a good life, whether it's a fish , dog, monkey, gorilla, whatever. And just cause I love opening myself up to the flame, I'll say this. I can't go into a Walmart without seeing a kid running around crazy, screaming, knocking stuff off shelves, running into people, and there parent is just mindless texting away on their cellphone. Why did you have a kid in the first place if you aren't going to take responsibility for it. Same with a fish. Take the responsibility for it. If you want to raise fish to feed the pirana, then raise that fish good, and then feed away.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to add. A lot of the saltwater fish we keep don't breed in captivity, or if they do, our small systems can't sustain the life of the fry with all the equipment being run. In the short term that may not mean much to some people, and to some they will never care, but our children's children one day might look at a picture in a book (probably a futuristic hologram or something), and see a picture of a yellow tang, or hippo tang, or whatever that is now extinct.
Edit 2: Ok, I'll get off my soap box after this. Ultimately, its your tank, your fish. If you want to go flush them all , that's your choice to make. But if you ask for advice, then at least take some of it. I'm not bashing you, nor do I doubt anyone else here is either. They are giving you there experience, based on what you wanted to know, even if it's the complete opposite of the answer you wanted. To answer your last question, if your using RODI water, a change wouldn't hurt. If you are using tap, i'd just leave it.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to add. A lot of the saltwater fish we keep don't breed in captivity, or if they do, our small systems can't sustain the life of the fry with all the equipment being run. In the short term that may not mean much to some people, and to some they will never care, but our children's children one day might look at a picture in a book (probably a futuristic hologram or something), and see a picture of a yellow tang, or hippo tang, or whatever that is now extinct.
Edit 2: Ok, I'll get off my soap box after this. Ultimately, its your tank, your fish. If you want to go flush them all , that's your choice to make. But if you ask for advice, then at least take some of it. I'm not bashing you, nor do I doubt anyone else here is either. They are giving you there experience, based on what you wanted to know, even if it's the complete opposite of the answer you wanted. To answer your last question, if your using RODI water, a change wouldn't hurt. If you are using tap, i'd just leave it.
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LeadFootedRacer
New member
The ONLY fish at risk in my setup are the damsels in it now. I purchased them based off information given to me by a reputable LFS which was CLEARLY a HUGE mistake. They don't take returns without a water sample, and they are just too inconvenient for me to go back to, and 2 have already died.
LeadFootedRacer
New member
Some of the replies in here make me look like I am intending to harm all of the fish. I made a mistake and was here looking for help. Removing the fish from the tank was not an option. That's it. There was and still is no need to badger me about it. Any and all future fish will only be put in when appropriate water parameters are in place and proper tank mates are in.
stingeragent
New member
Your getting on the right track. Take everyone's badgering as a guide on where you want to go from here. You should of seen the badgering I got when I put a yellow tang in a 20.
LeadFootedRacer
New member
Is moving a fish out of the tank when it outgrows the tank, really that big of a deal? I plan on some fish that will get too big for my tank. I mean, it takes a long while to get that size, but when they eventually do, I'd like to be able to move them somewhere safely.
stingeragent
New member
You will get a lot of oppinions on that. Like I said earlier, I have a hippo in my 40 which isn't ideal long term. So I will have to either rehome him, get a bigger tank, or let the tank go to crap and be half full of water and wanting to punch myself in the face remember that huge koi in a 10 gallon. From what I have read, it can be more stressful moving larger fish. You also have to consider you gotta catch the fish to rehome it. Now on a tank with no rocks in it, that would be easy. But once you gotta start pulling the rocks out it becomes more of an issue considering you will most likely have snails, hermits, corals, on those rocks. You also gotta consider if you will actually be able to rehome it? This may be hypocritical but I think you are thinking too long term. You have your first salty tank now , that you just barely started. I'd wait for the tank to cycle, have fun catching those damsels and rehoming them, and then find fish on your list that you want that can work in the tank you have now. You never know where you will be a year from now. My first salty tank was a 20, within about 3-4 months of having that I also got a 55. Then 4-5 months later I upgraded the 20 to a 40. You might get kicking in this hobby and love it, and a year from now be upgrading to a 6 ft tank. Or you may decide the upkeep isn't worth it and get out. That's fine too. I'd just work with what you have for now and go from there.
stingeragent
New member
2 Clown fish
2 Green Chromis
1 Foxface
1 Bicolor Dottyback
1 Chocolate Chip Starfish
1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
If it was me, I'd put that in the tank. If you plan on any corals, I'd omit the star. If you get on live aquaria and find the fish/invert you want, it will tell you if they are reef compatible. I've personally seen my choco chip eating mushrooms. I still have him but hes in a FOWLR now. The green chromis have been mostly a hit or miss with me, but I think that is largely the case without having a huge tank. The weaklings get picked off. Sub for anthias maybe. The mandarin I would for sure forgo until you have a well established system, as they can be hard to kept fed with pods. You could do the powder brown tang but it will need a new home at some point.
2 Green Chromis
1 Foxface
1 Bicolor Dottyback
1 Chocolate Chip Starfish
1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
If it was me, I'd put that in the tank. If you plan on any corals, I'd omit the star. If you get on live aquaria and find the fish/invert you want, it will tell you if they are reef compatible. I've personally seen my choco chip eating mushrooms. I still have him but hes in a FOWLR now. The green chromis have been mostly a hit or miss with me, but I think that is largely the case without having a huge tank. The weaklings get picked off. Sub for anthias maybe. The mandarin I would for sure forgo until you have a well established system, as they can be hard to kept fed with pods. You could do the powder brown tang but it will need a new home at some point.
CStrickland
New member
I don't understand how you can rehome all your future fish no problem, but for the ones you have in your tank today there is no option but leaving them in a toxic enviro and hoping for the best? If it's so easy to get rid of fish once you get tired of them why can't you rehome the damsels you admit were a mistake?
LeadFootedRacer
New member
You want some poisoned damsels? Come get them. LoL. Nobody will take these, as they are. Selling a healthy semi mature fish is MUCH different
CStrickland
New member
I like ur optimism, it's a valuable trait in the hobby. I really hope you wind up with some healthy semi mature fish and have no trouble rehoming them. If I were you I'd dial this whole project back a notch, stock the tank you have as if it were for forever and learn the basics so you don't make another big dramatic mistake. Once you get your head around the basics (reading the setting up sticky and then getting a few months of success under your belt) then worry about future fish. Like approach this more humbly.
I don't really disagree with your position on fish, if people are going to eat them when they could just as easy have a veggie burger it seems silly to get riled over tank sizes. But you might be surprised how they grow on you, even the worms are kinda cute in a way. Either way, you save a lot of money and frustration if you just "follow the rules" for a while until you have the base knowledge to pick which ones to break. There's a lot going on in your tank, but it isn't special. It's pretty much just like all the rest. It's not as if you're the first noob to want to put a powder brown in a 90. Those stubborn guys don't last, theirs aren't the old tanks.
PS ammonia poisoning isn't just a dead or not thing. It damages the internal organs such that the ones you've harmed are decrepit for life. Your survivors aren't going to be sellable if your standard for that is any measure of vitality. In case you were thinking that the ones you don't kill could be rehomed as "healthy"
I don't really disagree with your position on fish, if people are going to eat them when they could just as easy have a veggie burger it seems silly to get riled over tank sizes. But you might be surprised how they grow on you, even the worms are kinda cute in a way. Either way, you save a lot of money and frustration if you just "follow the rules" for a while until you have the base knowledge to pick which ones to break. There's a lot going on in your tank, but it isn't special. It's pretty much just like all the rest. It's not as if you're the first noob to want to put a powder brown in a 90. Those stubborn guys don't last, theirs aren't the old tanks.
PS ammonia poisoning isn't just a dead or not thing. It damages the internal organs such that the ones you've harmed are decrepit for life. Your survivors aren't going to be sellable if your standard for that is any measure of vitality. In case you were thinking that the ones you don't kill could be rehomed as "healthy"
dbnblynn
New member
Ok so I started reading this as a "hey this guy/girl (sorry I don't want to cross that line..lol) and I will get along. I too jumped in head first.. Not willy nilly.. I did my research but we started a tank after having a fresh tank.. And it grew and changed and upgraded and added parts... And we got fish we didn't need and couldn't keep... flushed (literally) a bunch of money... BUT my point is WELCOME TO REEFING! Just like parenting.. You're always wrong no matter what you do Hahahaha... So let the damsels duke it out and pave the way for the real show.. And while I understand the not caring about fish (I have freshies I'd love to just be dead by now so I could tear the tank down) you'll find you come to adore the salties. You'll start sitting staring at the tank to see what new critter surfaced... Where did the goby move his cave to? Where is the anemone? "Oh **** he's in the power head! GET THE GLOVES I'M GOING IN"
I'm not lecturing do what makes you happy.. I'm not sure I love your stocking and rehoming idea start with something and see what happens... you might end up loving the way the clown bobs as he swims and find you miss it when he's gone.. You know?
Bottom line.. Everyone is going to have their say. But you run your tank. Welcome to the empty wallet club.
I'm not lecturing do what makes you happy.. I'm not sure I love your stocking and rehoming idea start with something and see what happens... you might end up loving the way the clown bobs as he swims and find you miss it when he's gone.. You know?
Bottom line.. Everyone is going to have their say. But you run your tank. Welcome to the empty wallet club.
toothybugs
New member
It looks like this has pretty much run its course, so to wrap it up: what you're planning is technically okay, but the insecurity of rehoming bigger fish (not everywhere will do in 2 years what they say they will today; staff changes) gives some of us the heebie jeebies. It's kind of a moral-ethical thing and most of the more seasoned folks disagree with it, some strongly.
But thank you for sticking with us. You should be good with a bit of research before jumping in to the next steps as they come up over the following months. And just remember one thing if this go-around has you ambivalent about asking this group any more questions: we aren't trying to sell you something.
But thank you for sticking with us. You should be good with a bit of research before jumping in to the next steps as they come up over the following months. And just remember one thing if this go-around has you ambivalent about asking this group any more questions: we aren't trying to sell you something.
