What am I doing wrong?

[LeadFootedRacer]

Setup a 20 gallon QT a few weeks ago.

20g tank started 9/18
600gph power head
Air sponge
HOB with carbon removed
PVC elbow
100w heater

It didn't fully cycle. When the ammonia hit zero I put fish in it. The clown I had in my display was known to have been in contact with ich. He went into the tank late evening of 10/8. Mid afternoon 10/9 I added a flame angel and a one spot fox face, to quarantine all of them together while the display was fallow for 72 days. Everyone eating ok and happy.

Mid day Saturday 10/10 the flame died. Not sure what the cause, nobody showing signs of anything. Fox face and clown eating very well and very active. 20% water change performed at this time, as well as dosed with prime to help neutralize the uncycled nitrites.

I have been waiting for the alert badge and test kit to come in the mail. Tuesday 10/12 the clown is showing spots. I treat with the first dose of cupramine, because the test kit and badge are due in on Wednesday.

Wednesday morning I woke up to a dead fox face. The clown is still active and still showing the ich spots.

What am I doing wrong, and will the clown make it?

 

[Nina51]

The clown I had in my display was known to have been in contact with ich.

not sure what you mean...did you add an already infected clown to your dt or qt? if it was first noticed in your dt, were there other fish in the tank? are you positive it was ich? every fish in your tank was exposed (if there were any) and all of them will have to be qt'ed/treated.

were the new fish bought locally or shipped? how did you acclimate?

word of caution...NEVER use prime when you are using copper treatment.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

The clown was in the dt. I lost a damsel to ich so I set up the qt to treat the clown. No other fish in dt.

Fish were purchased locally through petco. Acclimation was a tad off, since the flame tipped the bag over. I did the float method and scooped in my water every few minutes. The flame hit the bag just right and freed itself into the tank.

Seachem suggests waiting 48 hours before adding cupramine. I waited an extra 24, just to be safe. I've already looked into that, and have chosen to stick with one specific brand of chemical for this tank, just to be able to have maximum support from the company.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Got home in between jobs and the clown looked fine. Swimming all over and acting normal. Fed him and left to go to my next job. Ammonia badge and copper test kit have not arrived yet, but are due today. I am supposed to dose the cupramine again tomorrow, and check the concentration.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Would leaving a veggie sheet in the tank overnight cause an ammonia spike and cause the death of the fish? I'm just so confused and now just want to treat the clown, get it back in the dt (when appropriate of course) and buy no other fish.

 

[Louis Z]

You will not like what I have to say. You are rushing everything. Expect all fish are sick. Don't just QT but treat right away. Have all meds and equipment on hand before you purchase. Waiting for a med in the mail is a sure way to doom the fish. A day lost in treatment is a day closer to death . When u have sick fish don't go out and buy more to treat all at once. Look at the stickies on the forum and familiarize yourself with brook, velvet, ich,uronema, flukes, and internal parasites. Know signs and symptoms. Know treatment strategy. Have the full amt of meds on hand. Have multiple tanks ready for the tank transfer method. Treat all fish then leave in qt tank for 2 months and observe . They have to earn the right to be in the display tank.

 

[snorvich]

You will not like what I have to say. You are rushing everything. Expect all fish are sick. Don't just QT but treat right away. Have all meds and equipment on hand before you purchase. Waiting for a med in the mail is a sure way to doom the fish. A day lost in treatment is a day closer to death . When u have sick fish don't go out and buy more to treat all at once. Look at the stickies on the forum and familiarize yourself with brook, velvet, ich,uronema, flukes, and internal parasites. Know signs and symptoms. Know treatment strategy. Have the full amt of meds on hand. Have multiple tanks ready for the tank transfer method. Treat all fish then leave in qt tank for 2 months and observe . They have to earn the right to be in the display tank.

Well said.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Alright... Nearing the end of the 14 day copper treatment on my clown. By day 3 the spots were 100% gone and he appeared to be his happy healthy self.

Today makes day 11. The copper has been at a steady .4mg/l and there has been no issues noticed with the water parameters. Earlier this afternoon I noticed spots again. These are more pale and less pronounced than the ones I assumed to be ich 2 weeks ago. I will try to get pictures later tonight. He is eating normal, very active, and very alert. Breathing normal and crazy friendly. Has the ich possibly come back?

 

[Deinonych]

It's possible you are dealing with a different parasite. Once you post the pictures, a better diagnosis hopefully can be provided.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

I'm really having a hard time getting a quality enough shot to show what i am seeing. The spots are his back, and on the fin. I don't see any other spots anywhere else on his body/face/tail.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Who would have thought a brand new top of the line iPhone takes such a grainy photo.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Should I keep the cupramine level at .4 for longer, or start cleaning the water? Today makes the 14th day of treatment

 

[mattcoug]

The first pic kinda looks more like patches of slime, which would indicate brook. But it is really hard to tell without a clear picture.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

They are definitely spots/specs. They haven't subsided in the last couple days. Should I leave the levels up, to be sure? Does cupramine handle brook?

 

[mattcoug]

They are definitely spots/specs. They haven't subsided in the last couple days. Should I leave the levels up, to be sure? Does cupramine handle brook?

The commonly accepted solution for brook is formalin dips. Brook typically looks more like patches of film/skin peeling off. A clear photo would be really helpful here. Maybe try to lock the focus and wait for fish to get to the right spot.


If it is ich, you can bump the dose to .5 - make sure you are testing accurately and frequently. A prefered alternative would be to scrap cupramine and use TTM(ich only).

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

I will try to get better pics this evening. It's really hard, he is about as attentive as a 8 year old with ADD and an ice cream hahaha

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

Not much better at all. Haha. I'm sorry.

I am seeing a single speck, on each side, behind his first stripe up high. I am also seeing a single speck at the furthest point of his tail fin, halfway up. That's it. Not a slime. Looks like a premature whitehead almost.

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

http://youtu.be/s8egc7RpKKI

Does this help at all?

 

[mattcoug]

...
Not much better at all. Haha. I'm sorry.

I am seeing a single speck, on each side, behind his first stripe up high. I am also seeing a single speck at the furthest point of his tail fin, halfway up. That's it. Not a slime. Looks like a premature whitehead almost.

Looks like ich to me. You have a couple choices - you can continue with cupramine, but make sure you keep the dosage up at all times(including during water changes, etc), make sure your testing is accurate, NEVER add prime, and restart your countdown every time you see ich. If you have any fear of velvet then stay this course.

Or the safer more reliable way to treat ich(ich only) is to do TTM now. You can do this in a couple old salt buckets, don't use cupramine, and do add prime. The tank would have to be cleaned out before returning the fish to it.

There are stickys for the TTM procedure.

If the whitish spec becomes a large slime,skin peeling,etc you need to be ready for treating brook. Order some "fishvet formalin MS" from amazon now, to have in your fish medicine cabinet. You will not have time to react if you ever get brook. You can see other threads on here for examples of what happens.

-Matt

 

[LeadFootedRacer]

I haven't had to re-dose since the second initial dose. It's maintained a solid .4 level these past 2 weeks. I will give him more time in there with the cupramine, and bump it up to .5.