What An Idiot!

[phishx]

So... I've been spending the last 5-6 hours setting up a 20 gallon QT for all my fish since i have Ich in the system... running back and forth from home to my LFS... gathering this and that... copper... NSW (sea water)... piping... Home Depot trips... different types of medication... THE WORKS right.

i finally get all my water in the 20 gallon along with filter and everything else i need... then i start adjusting for Hypo salinity... lowering from 1.024 all the way down to a S.G. of 1.009... so since i am out of R/O from the LFS when i did my top off earlier in my 100 gallon, i figure, shoot, i can make my own water since i have the worlds largest bottle of Aqua Safe (you know the stuff that removes/neutralizes ALL heavy metals in the tap water copper, zinc, iron & chlorine)... i then start removing salt water from the QT and adding TREATED tap water... about 1 hour later i finally have the salinity im looking for... ( 1.009 ) so i pop a heater in the QT... bring it up to the same temp as my tank... add the correct dosage of copper (actually a little under the desired dosage to be sure to prevent over dose) then after the copper settles in for about another 30 mins. i start transferring fish.... one fish after another... all my tangs... my Scats... my last surviving clown (the baby died this morning from Ich ) everything except my wrasses....

I then sit back and finally start to relax... i start reviewing to make sure everything is in order...

heater... check
filter... check
PVC for hiding... check
UV... check
Hypo salinity... check
copper medication... check
stable matching temps... check
no stray current in water. check

right then it hit me... $#%@!!!!!
i am using COPPER as the main treatment for the ICH... and like a IDIOT I MADE MY OWN WATER!!! now why would any SMART person ADD AQUA SAFE to a QT tank when ATTEMPTING to utilize COPPER to cure the fish!?! *** was i thinking!

can someone please tell me how long this Aqua Safe will make camp in my QT tank until i can effectively add copper again!? should i just remove ALL the water from the QT, go back to the LFS and mix new water ON THE SPOT to a S.G. of 1.009 then come home... add it back to the QT and THEN add COPPER back into the system... i just need a few good ideas

 

[rbdesigns]

I'm not sure if I got this right, but you transferred your fish from 1.024 to 1.009 water?

To do hypo, you take out some of your tank water and replace it with ro water to lower the salinity down to 1.009 over a couple of hours. Are you using a hydrometer or refractometer to check the salinity?

 

[bkiba]

post this in the reef chemisty forum, I'm sure you will get an answer there

 

[Bebo77]

hypo amd copper at the same time? dude what are you doing? do one or the other? and that is NOT how you do hypo...

www.eispv.com

 

[818]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9355309#post9355309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rbdesigns

To do hypo, you take out some of your tank water and replace it with ro water to lower the salinity down to 1.009 over a couple of hours.

Its actuall suppose to be days. Hours will cause the fish to go into shock.

 

[bennyinca]

like it was said above, pick one treatment (copper / hypo), don't mix them up!

You are supposed to lower the sg gradually with all the fish already in there. Lowering sg can be done in a few hours. The reverse process of increasing the sg back (when hypo is done) needs to be done in several days.

Also, in your hyposalinity QT tank, keep an eye on pH as it can easily fluctuate.

 

[949Reef]

After a day or so get the water tested to see how much copper is in it. Some fish store has digital tester that can give you an accurate reading.

 

[cthetoy]

Youre lucky that most fish can take the shock of going to a lower salinity. If youre raising back your salinity after your quarantine you will need to do this over several days.

If youre treating ich with hypo then you do not need copper so I would not bother adding anything more copper however if you have velvet then hypo would not work. My fish had both (ich and velvet) so I treated it with copper.

What brand of copper are you using?

 

[JownsenJesus]

For hypo you are suppose to have the fish in the QT before you start lowering the salinity, and than your suppose to do 25% w/c with FW till your REFRACTOMETER (must have) reads 1.009 sg.

 

[phishx]

i know
i was just thinking about all of this AFTER i have done all of this... i have been reading up on the Marine Depot forum on the sticky Ich thread they have there...

here is a excerpt from the format i was ATTEMPTING to follow...

-by Kelly Jedlicki
What to do for the fish:

All the fish need to be treated in a separate quarantine/hospital tank.

*Hyposalinity (S.G. 1.009 - measured with a refractometer at least daily) for a minimum of 4 weeks. The parasite can not live in hyposalinity.

* The tank needs to be bare bottom (no substrate) with hiding spots for the fish. Hiding spots should be things that can be sterilized after each use - pvc pipe/couplings or those plastic caves/decorations used in freshwater tanks.

* There should be some source of biological filtration. I prefer air driven sponge filters that can be cycled or maintained in your display system's sump or a sponge or bioballs in a HOB (hang on the back filter). Both of these can be quickly removed from the display system and added to the QT.

* Additional aeration (air stone or power head pointed from the bottom of the tank to surface) will also be needed as these fish are stressed and this causes an increase demand for oxygen.

*Another option is to treat with copper in the quarantine/hospital tank. Copper has been proven as an affective treatment. Copper too is an irritant and fish breeders have found it to affect fertility. Copper kills inverts, algaes, corals. Some fish (scale-less fish, elasmobranchs) are very sensitive to copper and do not do well. If you use copper, in addition to the other water parameters, you must monitor the copper levels daily to prevent toxicity as well as subtherapeutic levels (low) as both extremes will affect the outcome/cure.

Whether you choose hyposalinity or copper treatment, you must monitor the water parameters in the tank at least daily as pH, ammonia and nitrite levels can change rapidly. This causes additional stress which can affect the success of cure. Frequent water changes and the addition of buffer to maintain pH are required.

Improving the fish's immune system will also help. You can do this by the addition of beta glucan, vitamins and garlic to the fish's diet daily while in treatment.

Watch closely for secondary infections as mentioned above. Antibiotics may need to be added. I would not recommend treating with antibiotics prophylactically or "just in case" as this can add stress or lead to a drug resistant pathogens.

Don't like these proven methods of cure- The only other option is to break down the tank & start over.

 

[phishx]

it was here...
-Whether you choose hyposalinity or copper treatment, you must monitor the water parameters in the tank at least daily as pH, ammonia and nitrite levels can change rapidly. This causes additional stress which can affect the success of cure. Frequent water changes and the addition of buffer to maintain pH are required....

when i noticed that i should be doing ONE or the OTHER... i just wish it would have been a little more clear!.... that is why at least i have added the AquaSafe to the water, do you think that all the copper was removed?...wait, i have a copper test kit... i will post results after i test the water... if there is still copper in the water, should i just add more AquaSafe to remove it or should i be using Carbon?

 

[phishx]

let me answer some questions:

i am using a refractometer to check salt.
copper brand = Mardel COPPER SAFE

thank you bennyinca for your advice... what is the best EASY TO USE pH buffer for the QT...

 

[phishx]

ok... before i make another mistake...
the only fish not transfered so far are my 2 pencil wrasses and my 2 bird wrasses... i will not transfer these 4 fish UNTIL i am completely sure that there is no copper in the system...
BUT can someone please tell me the proper way to introduce the wrasses into hypo!?

luck for me, all my other fish that i just dropped into the QT last night are doing ok... my tangs even look a little better... im so glad i havent killed anything (*yet)

 

[Bergovoy]

Could the salinity be increased gradullly enough by topping off with salt water rather then ro water?? Would that be slow enough?? I guess that would depend on the size of the qt and the amount of evap huh?

But seems like a way to do this gradually and not by manually dumping a qty ata a time...

Bill

And I am not sure if the use of bothe hypo salinity and copper is necessaryil the issue but the use of the aqua clear and the copper.

I think that the aqua clear might have reduced the copper levels that you originally intended to not reduce. But since yo are now reallizing it to be one or the other, that the aqua clear is helping your situation now.

jmho


bill