What Are The Local Reef Stores Missing
- Thread starter bluereefmarine
- Start date
The QT process is a large part of why I shop at the store I do, it may be a little more expensive then some of the other stores, although I have done my rounds and at the most I'm spending a buck or 2 more on a 50 dollar fish and more often than not its cheaper there, and I have the reassurance that this fish/coral is healthy because they refuse to sell fish that aren't.
The QT process is a large part of why I shop at the store I do, it may be a little more expensive then some of the other stores, although I have done my rounds and at the most I'm spending a buck or 2 more on a 50 dollar fish and more often than not its cheaper there, and I have the reassurance that this fish/coral is healthy because they refuse to sell fish and corals that aren't.
Mr Neutron
Aquarium Cleaner-Upper
It's called conscientious store keeping. All fish showing signs of injury and/or infection should be put in sickbay. New livestock, depending on species, should be dipped.
By the way, dipping is NOT a guarantee you won't have problems. Many pathogens and parasites can live through dips, and for some things it does no good whatsoever. It's not appropriate for some fish and some coral. Bottom line, do your homework before you buy, keep up with your husbandry and spend a few bucks to set up an inexpensive Q/Hospital tank.
By the way, dipping is NOT a guarantee you won't have problems. Many pathogens and parasites can live through dips, and for some things it does no good whatsoever. It's not appropriate for some fish and some coral. Bottom line, do your homework before you buy, keep up with your husbandry and spend a few bucks to set up an inexpensive Q/Hospital tank.
Yes there are a lot of fish stores that do have areas that they put their sick fish in. And as far as the whole qt thing goes if you don't do your own quarantining, I don't care where you shop or who does what, there will always be eggs. So what is the point, a dip kills what is on it. Name one fish store that can say it is practical to do a weeks worth of qt to every coral. (I am a shopper that has had it all no matter what people say they have done to their corals.) There are some places that I will only buy corals from and I nearly make my corals life miserable when I get home and give them a povidone dip that would turn you brown. But yet within the last month have gotten red bugs, and monti eating nudibranches. I won't say whos store and not go there but I will say this even if they dip and qt I still got the parasites, and you know whos fault it is? Mine, for not quarantining it myself. I like the saying, "when you want something done right, do it yourself."
I am fixing that by making my own. Then no matter whos tank they came from a new coral will go in the quarantine tank for however long it takes. Then guess what ,no parasites, oh and i won't have to care what fish stores do because I only trust myself from this point on.
And you are absolutely right MR Neutron.
I am fixing that by making my own. Then no matter whos tank they came from a new coral will go in the quarantine tank for however long it takes. Then guess what ,no parasites, oh and i won't have to care what fish stores do because I only trust myself from this point on.
And you are absolutely right MR Neutron.
cschweitzer
New member
Of course, I completely agree, everyone should QT their new arrivals. Every single person who buys saltwater should do this. Fact is, this is a great process, but that does not mean you should not expect a healthy animal when you buy from a store. I think it all works from the top down.
A store needs to find good, reputable wholesalers that are willing to send only healthy animals that are caught using non-abrasive techniques(no cyanide, etc.). Obviously, there are some cracks and a sick fish here and there will fall through them. This is the time when they are stressed and coming into a store. This is the time when they need the most care and best health. If there are sick or dying fish polluting their water, there is no chance for this to happen.
After this, it is the buyers discretion whether to buy the animal or not. I think this has a lot to do with the process. After purchase, it is the buyer's discretion to QT the animal or not.
Again, I am not putting the full burden on the stores, but honestly, it is everyone's responsibility to keep the fish happy and in turn the buyer happy. I think a scaled-down version of MAC certification(too harsh of restrictions and cost to be reasonable as an optional benefit in trade) and/or some type of animal rights laws could significantly help our hobby. After all, I would consider turning a blind eye to a sick fish almost an act of abuse; we now have the technologies to significantly reduce illnesses that we didn't have 10 years ago. Sale of sick or dying animals in any sense is just not good sense.
Matt, if you find this inappropriate, I am willing to let a mod remove any part of this statement you would like gone, but I felt it needed to be said.
A store needs to find good, reputable wholesalers that are willing to send only healthy animals that are caught using non-abrasive techniques(no cyanide, etc.). Obviously, there are some cracks and a sick fish here and there will fall through them. This is the time when they are stressed and coming into a store. This is the time when they need the most care and best health. If there are sick or dying fish polluting their water, there is no chance for this to happen.
After this, it is the buyers discretion whether to buy the animal or not. I think this has a lot to do with the process. After purchase, it is the buyer's discretion to QT the animal or not.
Again, I am not putting the full burden on the stores, but honestly, it is everyone's responsibility to keep the fish happy and in turn the buyer happy. I think a scaled-down version of MAC certification(too harsh of restrictions and cost to be reasonable as an optional benefit in trade) and/or some type of animal rights laws could significantly help our hobby. After all, I would consider turning a blind eye to a sick fish almost an act of abuse; we now have the technologies to significantly reduce illnesses that we didn't have 10 years ago. Sale of sick or dying animals in any sense is just not good sense.
Matt, if you find this inappropriate, I am willing to let a mod remove any part of this statement you would like gone, but I felt it needed to be said.
cschweitzer
New member
#2 on our list of main goals at ORCA is:
Promote better standards for LFS
It is part of our goal and I think a very important part.
Promote better standards for LFS
It is part of our goal and I think a very important part.
Thats great I like that one, and I help those fish out that want help, but who has dissiminated any readings from any books( I forgot what number that is). Or better yet done anything other than the regular meetings to futher help aquarists needs. I just started doing the workshops because I like to hang around with other people and talk about the hobby, and they aren't going to get more out of it by attending. I love it so much I nearly front 300 dollars for each work shop out of my pocket. So after this post I have spoke my mind entirely. Thanks all for listening.
Pacific Reefs
New member
Craig this is so much easier said than done. Just the pure stress of transport leaves some fish in distress and near death before they even get a chance to enter the LFS tanks. Suppliers are in the business to make money. So a lot of times fish that shouldn't be shipped do get sent out. If you want to promote better standards at LFS sometimes you need to start in California with the Suppliers. Just volunteer at an LFS when the shipment comes in....a LARGE shipment. Then you will see how some things are out of your control.
I think the best thing to come out of this thread is that it doesn't matter if you get your fish or corals from fellow reefers, the LFS or a frag auction. Just set up your own QT tank and know what to look for and how to treat it. :thumbsup:
cowboyswife
New member
Well said! :fish1:
nauti1us
ORCA President 2007~2008
"Thats great I like that one, and I help those fish out that want help, but who has dissiminated any readings from any books( I forgot what number that is). Or better yet done anything other than the regular meetings to futher help aquarists needs."
I may have misinterpreted this post, if not I'll respond; When I initiated the monthly club raffle, I intended to include at least one book at each meeting. Many if not most of the newer members have never even picked up a book as a reference. The internet has taken over as a resource for the most part it seems.
Many of our presentations at our meetings are taken from reading materials or researched materials. Lastly, SRC was totally focused on bringing Authors and noted Speakers to the hobbyist to further educate the hobbyist. That would be objective #1
Workshops have been attempted during meetings in the past that I've witnessed. Due to the huge number of people in attendance, they can be difficult to manage so that everyone can see or take part. However, at the last ORCA meeting David's presentation was the best workshop/presentation I've seen yet and the feedback from members was the same. And since then it spurred more workshops that are going very successfully.
If there are others that have ideas for workshops they would like to host and they would like ORCA to endorse or support, please contact anyone on the BOD and we'll do our best to make that happen. I think it's a great idea.
I digress... this thread went 90 degrees off topic...
Quarantining corals and fish at home ultimately is the answer. I know it is so much easier to place the burden on the LFS so you don't have to go to the trouble of setting up yet another tank... But, stick around and spend a few more years in this hobby and you'll see that some things simply don't change. After 17 years in this hobby... the wholesalers still look exactly the same. The fish shipments arriving at LFS's still look the same. The routines remain unchanged. There's only so much a LFS can do and QT'ing Fish and corals prior to putting in display tanks is simply unrealistic. And dips are marginally prophylactic. The responsibility is ours to ensure our tanks are taken care of. At times this can be a complicated hobby that requires real patience, determination and sacrifice.
sorry for the rant... only one cup of coffee so far...
I may have misinterpreted this post, if not I'll respond; When I initiated the monthly club raffle, I intended to include at least one book at each meeting. Many if not most of the newer members have never even picked up a book as a reference. The internet has taken over as a resource for the most part it seems.
Many of our presentations at our meetings are taken from reading materials or researched materials. Lastly, SRC was totally focused on bringing Authors and noted Speakers to the hobbyist to further educate the hobbyist. That would be objective #1
Workshops have been attempted during meetings in the past that I've witnessed. Due to the huge number of people in attendance, they can be difficult to manage so that everyone can see or take part. However, at the last ORCA meeting David's presentation was the best workshop/presentation I've seen yet and the feedback from members was the same. And since then it spurred more workshops that are going very successfully.
If there are others that have ideas for workshops they would like to host and they would like ORCA to endorse or support, please contact anyone on the BOD and we'll do our best to make that happen. I think it's a great idea.
I digress... this thread went 90 degrees off topic...
Quarantining corals and fish at home ultimately is the answer. I know it is so much easier to place the burden on the LFS so you don't have to go to the trouble of setting up yet another tank... But, stick around and spend a few more years in this hobby and you'll see that some things simply don't change. After 17 years in this hobby... the wholesalers still look exactly the same. The fish shipments arriving at LFS's still look the same. The routines remain unchanged. There's only so much a LFS can do and QT'ing Fish and corals prior to putting in display tanks is simply unrealistic. And dips are marginally prophylactic. The responsibility is ours to ensure our tanks are taken care of. At times this can be a complicated hobby that requires real patience, determination and sacrifice.
sorry for the rant... only one cup of coffee so far...
jay24k
Active member
The problem is this group is a minority. People would rather pay 15 bucks less for a fish that isn't QT and take the risk. By forcing LFS to QT, the costs would rise significantly. Imagine getting 60 fish in and QT each one for 2 weeks. Where are most LFS going to do this? I can understand a sick fish and moving that but you have to realize it is a business.
I visit several stores when I go up there. The only thing I've seen is some stores have high prices on fish and some places have expensive corals. I just go to get the rare stuff now so I don't sweat it. If most of us reefers would sell our corals at a reduced price, we are able to save money and then save up for the rarer stuff. That's why I always sell good sized frags for cheap
I visit several stores when I go up there. The only thing I've seen is some stores have high prices on fish and some places have expensive corals. I just go to get the rare stuff now so I don't sweat it. If most of us reefers would sell our corals at a reduced price, we are able to save money and then save up for the rarer stuff. That's why I always sell good sized frags for cheap
cschweitzer
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10714870#post10714870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jay24k
The problem is this group is a minority. People would rather pay 15 bucks less for a fish that isn't QT and take the risk. By forcing LFS to QT, the costs would rise significantly. Imagine getting 60 fish in and QT each one for 2 weeks. Where are most LFS going to do this? I can understand a sick fish and moving that but you have to realize it is a business.
I visit several stores when I go up there. The only thing I've seen is some stores have high prices on fish and some places have expensive corals. I just go to get the rare stuff now so I don't sweat it. If most of us reefers would sell our corals at a reduced price, we are able to save money and then save up for the rarer stuff. That's why I always sell good sized frags for cheap
I think people are misunderstanding what I meant and misrepresenting what I said.
Let me be clear, I don't think and LFS needs to QT every fish for two weeks before putting them on display...the hundreds of tanks needed for that would not be economically viable.
I do, however, believe that if a fish is sick, it is a stores responsibility to QT it and it is their responsibility to keep the other healthy fish in just that condition: healthy.
I walked into a couple stores in the last few weeks and saw tanks with fish that had eyes bigger than their head. They were in separate tanks and in the tanks with them were healthy and beautiful fish(expensive ones, at that). It may have come in that way, but you as a store need to bring that to the wholesalers attention and let them know that is unacceptable. I've had over 10 fish shipped to me from different retailers and never once did I see something so criminally wrong on a fish. That is really not that hard and not too much to ask for them to call up the wholesalers and tell them that popeye, HLLE, etc is unacceptable. The only way to break the chain of exactly what Matt described is to be proactive, not complacent. Once in a while, ich may break...it happens. But don't leave that fish in a tank with healthy ones.
Again, do not QT every fish, just unhealthy fish. Really not that expensive and really not that difficult. Takes up very little room and would not, as stated before, add $15 to the fish cost(unless the store was purposefully trying to rip you off). It may add $1 to a healthy fish and $5 to one that had to be qt'ed. To think every fish is going to skyrocket in price, just look at stores in the area that already put this into paractice: Marcye at SITC and John at FAOIS. Two of the top stores in Florida already practice this policy and they are not any more expensive(for the quality) than any other store in the area.
JUICE!
Premium Member
not to get off the LFS animal health....but.....thinking on cool things the LFS can do....
How does an ORCA appreciation day at each store sound? Maybe a Bar-b-que and some drinks......and an extra discount for that particular day?
We are a few hundred strong now. It would be a great way to get us down to their stores, and give us a little bit better discount now and again. I know 2 fish stores that are interested.....wouldn't it be cool if we could get all our sponsors on board......we could potentially do an orlando fish store tour over the course of the year.
After all....each store has strong points, and I think it would be fun shopping as a group.
oh....and everyone can look for bugs and decide whether the coral or fish is worth quarantining and either buy it or tell the owner how naughty he or she is.
By the way.....didn't we have a presentation about pests and how to be rid of them? Isn't said presentation posted on the ORCA site?
I feel like the LFS should be quarantining everything, if not for our good, for theirs......but just because a store has bugs, doesn't mean I won't buy from them.......I'll be less inclined to buy, but the fact is.....if you have what I want for the right price, I'll buy it. I guarantee that you won't find bugs in my show tanks.
Really it all boils down to their individual business practices. I keep that in mind when shopping. I'll buy a dog without shots if I want it....I have a Vet. And the city does provide me with RO water....I just had to get an extra filter.
~D
~D
How does an ORCA appreciation day at each store sound? Maybe a Bar-b-que and some drinks......and an extra discount for that particular day?
We are a few hundred strong now. It would be a great way to get us down to their stores, and give us a little bit better discount now and again. I know 2 fish stores that are interested.....wouldn't it be cool if we could get all our sponsors on board......we could potentially do an orlando fish store tour over the course of the year.
After all....each store has strong points, and I think it would be fun shopping as a group.
oh....and everyone can look for bugs and decide whether the coral or fish is worth quarantining and either buy it or tell the owner how naughty he or she is.
By the way.....didn't we have a presentation about pests and how to be rid of them? Isn't said presentation posted on the ORCA site?
I feel like the LFS should be quarantining everything, if not for our good, for theirs......but just because a store has bugs, doesn't mean I won't buy from them.......I'll be less inclined to buy, but the fact is.....if you have what I want for the right price, I'll buy it. I guarantee that you won't find bugs in my show tanks.
Really it all boils down to their individual business practices. I keep that in mind when shopping. I'll buy a dog without shots if I want it....I have a Vet. And the city does provide me with RO water....I just had to get an extra filter.
~D
~D
nauti1us
ORCA President 2007~2008
Sounds like an interesting idea. I have been approached by a few stores that want to host future club meetings but we are already booked out until March of next year.
This would be a good way to get ORCA in the doors of LFS Sponsor stores not yet visited.
May be the Activities Director might want to run this one and take a look at what it would take to solict LFS Sponsor support.
Good ideas jusy keep roll'n in...
Reefworkschris
In Memoriam
I'm glad this thread came up because I am always looking for feedback on my store and i'm sure that the other store owners feel the same way. If there is something you want to see more of just let us know. If you have any great ideas for all of the stores feel free to post it up here and we will see what we can do to make it happen. If you have feedback of any stores in particular go there and tell them about it, we all would like to hear it, but you definitly shouldn't post up negatives on reef central.
As far as livestock, trying to QT everything that comes in the door would require all of the stores to have twice the holding capacity that we have now. That would raise prices significantly because we would all need bigger stores, purchase a lot more systems, higher power bills, etc. All stores deal with fish and corals as needed. As far as I know every store has a hospital tank set up and QT's fish as needed and medicates the tank according to what diseases/parasites are in the tank at the time. We also dip/QT corals as needed but it just isn't practical to QT everything that comes in the door. Check with dave for the QT tanks, these are really cool little tanks and serve there purpose well. I do agree the you should QT anything that goes into your tank no matter where it comes from. I have fought off every parasite possible in the past and QT'ing eliminates all of that in your display tank.
Anyways thanks for the comment so far and keep them coming.
Chris
As far as livestock, trying to QT everything that comes in the door would require all of the stores to have twice the holding capacity that we have now. That would raise prices significantly because we would all need bigger stores, purchase a lot more systems, higher power bills, etc. All stores deal with fish and corals as needed. As far as I know every store has a hospital tank set up and QT's fish as needed and medicates the tank according to what diseases/parasites are in the tank at the time. We also dip/QT corals as needed but it just isn't practical to QT everything that comes in the door. Check with dave for the QT tanks, these are really cool little tanks and serve there purpose well. I do agree the you should QT anything that goes into your tank no matter where it comes from. I have fought off every parasite possible in the past and QT'ing eliminates all of that in your display tank.
Anyways thanks for the comment so far and keep them coming.
Chris
JUICE!
Premium Member
Thanks Matt!
I don't think it's unreasonable to see 3 or 4 different club activities going on every month. Just look at how much better the club is now than is has been. Granted, the attendance might not be as large as our regular meetings.....But I like you guys....
I'd like to go do a DIY workshop every month or two....I'd show up at a ORCA appreciation day on a sunday afternoon...and I'll surely be there on this next trip and will start asking about the next one as soon as we get back. Down the road maybe we'll have giant frag events all by themselves, and some more "sidewalk sales"
Here's the Key......Members: Be Vocal....Let the Board and officers know what you'd like to do. Be helpful.....if you come across a cool oppertunity, find out what it would take to make it happen. Be Active: Help the club when and where you can. Just because you aren't the official activities director doesn't mean you can't help out.
This club was built and is maintained by volunteers. The more people that volunteer their help....the bigger and better our club will be. It takes more than just one guy to make things happen. It's way too much work for one person....or for the entire BOD for that matter. If you have an idea, or think and want to help out....even just a little....PLEASE do
I don't think I've ever seen a situation where credit wasn't given where credit was due.
Remember elections are coming up.....This club is what WE make of it. PLEASE come out to the next meeting and put your name on the list....and after the elections are over......the new crew will still welcome fresh ideas and a bit of help here and there.
I don't think it's unreasonable to see 3 or 4 different club activities going on every month. Just look at how much better the club is now than is has been. Granted, the attendance might not be as large as our regular meetings.....But I like you guys....
I'd like to go do a DIY workshop every month or two....I'd show up at a ORCA appreciation day on a sunday afternoon...and I'll surely be there on this next trip and will start asking about the next one as soon as we get back. Down the road maybe we'll have giant frag events all by themselves, and some more "sidewalk sales"
Here's the Key......Members: Be Vocal....Let the Board and officers know what you'd like to do. Be helpful.....if you come across a cool oppertunity, find out what it would take to make it happen. Be Active: Help the club when and where you can. Just because you aren't the official activities director doesn't mean you can't help out.
This club was built and is maintained by volunteers. The more people that volunteer their help....the bigger and better our club will be. It takes more than just one guy to make things happen. It's way too much work for one person....or for the entire BOD for that matter. If you have an idea, or think and want to help out....even just a little....PLEASE do
I don't think I've ever seen a situation where credit wasn't given where credit was due.
Remember elections are coming up.....This club is what WE make of it. PLEASE come out to the next meeting and put your name on the list....and after the elections are over......the new crew will still welcome fresh ideas and a bit of help here and there.
JUICE!
Premium Member
by the way....reefworks......I'd like to see a tank I can buy from with metal halides over it. I like your prices, but stony corals are kind of pot luck for me....I have to "imagine" what your SPS will turn into when I put them under my halides.
Ocean blue/aquaria studio......I think your colonies are overpriced, but your tanks are looking MUCH better this year than last. I tend to shop at Ocean blue for fish and dry goods that I need quickly because it's a couple blocks from my office. You guys have a great selection of LPS....I'd like to see some more exotic SPS.
Fish bowl...Ocean direct...aquarium......what is your stores name now? I get confused.....you have slammin prices on live rock....but I'd like to see more corals.
SITC....your livestock is in prestine condition every time I'm there...some stuff is a bit pricey, but the quality is always on point. I also really appreciate how active you are in our club...thanks!
WWC...can you move your store closer to me? if not...I'd like to see more dry goods....I'd have more reason to stop by more frequently. You definitely have some nice corals for good prices.
Fishy business....is that still the same name? You have a great selection of fish, and the prices are pretty good....but the last time I was in there, it was hard to get a salespersons attention(they were busy though) and the fish tanks looked like they needed a little cleaning. I haven't stopped in for a while. You were probably having a super busy day when I was there last.
who am I missing? those are the stores I seem to come across most often. I do have to admit...I get most of my stuff via internet, and I don't get to LFS as often as I'd like.
All of these stores have great customer service! I like to be treated like a friend when I spend my money, and ALL of these places are very nice and take the time to say hello and ask how my tanks are doing. Some even offer a cold soda, and a bag of chips. If I had time, I'd stop by all these places every week just to say hello and chat for a bit if nothing else.
Seven seas....I'm coming to check you guys out this weekend
and Tommy.....I still haven't checked your store out yet, but i'll make a point to check you out this weekend also.
Ocean blue/aquaria studio......I think your colonies are overpriced, but your tanks are looking MUCH better this year than last. I tend to shop at Ocean blue for fish and dry goods that I need quickly because it's a couple blocks from my office. You guys have a great selection of LPS....I'd like to see some more exotic SPS.
Fish bowl...Ocean direct...aquarium......what is your stores name now? I get confused.....you have slammin prices on live rock....but I'd like to see more corals.
SITC....your livestock is in prestine condition every time I'm there...some stuff is a bit pricey, but the quality is always on point. I also really appreciate how active you are in our club...thanks!
WWC...can you move your store closer to me? if not...I'd like to see more dry goods....I'd have more reason to stop by more frequently. You definitely have some nice corals for good prices.
Fishy business....is that still the same name? You have a great selection of fish, and the prices are pretty good....but the last time I was in there, it was hard to get a salespersons attention(they were busy though) and the fish tanks looked like they needed a little cleaning. I haven't stopped in for a while. You were probably having a super busy day when I was there last.
who am I missing? those are the stores I seem to come across most often. I do have to admit...I get most of my stuff via internet, and I don't get to LFS as often as I'd like.
All of these stores have great customer service! I like to be treated like a friend when I spend my money, and ALL of these places are very nice and take the time to say hello and ask how my tanks are doing. Some even offer a cold soda, and a bag of chips. If I had time, I'd stop by all these places every week just to say hello and chat for a bit if nothing else.
Seven seas....I'm coming to check you guys out this weekend
and Tommy.....I still haven't checked your store out yet, but i'll make a point to check you out this weekend also.
