What do you guys think of my plans.

[TheAquatect]

Hi everyone! I've been planning a little project for the past few months and would like to share my plans and gather some opinions on it. I have been a FW guy for a few years and decided to try out SW with a 10 gal nano. I figured if I could keep a small tank, then a larger one would be easier.. same as FW. So while I read up on all things salt, I built a nice little nano with a royal gramma, false perc clown and a coral banded shrimp. Along with a few blue leg hermits and florida turbos, it has turned out pretty good with 0 ammonia/nitrates, etc. So now I am ready for my little project and would love some opinions on my planned approach.

I have a 150 gal High (48"x24"x31") tank I am planning on building into a LPS/Soft coral reef and my favorite part of this build is it will be an in-wall aquarium. The tank is not drilled so I am planning on doing an over the top closed loop circulation system with a reeflo dart and roughly 9 1/2" line-loc outlets; 3 on each side and 3 down the middle.

For lighting I am planning on using a 48" 8 bulb Tek light T-5 fixture with a combination of T-5 bulbs. I am not sure what combination of bulbs to use but i am fond of the whiter side when it comes to lighting color, like a typical 50/50 puts out.

I am planning on using about 150 lbs of dry rock and some of the small live rock from my nano to help seed it. I want to avoid introducing pest as much as possible so I plan on seeding my rocks with things like miracle mud and such from IPSF.

For a sand bed i am going with a medium grade aragonite shallow sand bed, again populated from some fauna from IPSF. I feel this is the best way to control what I put in the tank so far.

In the future, I plan on adding an above tank refugium to grow out a good supply of pods and macro algae to support the growing tank. More near term, I want to add a ATO setup and that may drive my refugium need since I don't want a lot of clutter in the display tank.

One thing I would love an opinion on is the back of the tank. My nano has a painted blue background and i have seen black backgrounds as well. I personally prefer black but is there any reason beside esthetics to choose one over the other? In my case I will be covering 3 sides since it will be in a wall.

I feel like its a solid plan and am ready to pull the trigger on the pump and lights to get things going but would love some expert feedback before hand.

Oh, and noob question, where do you guys start your build threads? I did not see one that stood out.

 

[doctorgori]

I figured if I could keep a small tank, then a larger one would be easier

...sometimes its the opposite and I'm guessing that your success managing that nano will pay dividends with this new build...

...we got that same 150 (FOWLR)...I personally think it has a nice "geometry", although its height makes stocking inverts a challenge from a lighting pov...
we also have a 90G and while the 150 will need more light, its sheer floor space makes for some awsome aquascaping possibilities

...I prefer black backgrounds, but dark blue & light blue backgrounds absolutley work also!

I am not sure what combination of bulbs to use but i am fond of the whiter side when it comes to lighting color, like a typical 50/50 puts out.

Check out the T5 Q&A thread ....
Good luck!!!1

 

[jmarko]

How do you plan to do the protein skimmer. Most likely I would have the tank drilled with three holes and add an overflow. Hang on the back overflows are total garbage I would not bother even trying that. Last question do you have a plan on getting ro water?

 

[aleonn]

Welcome to RC!

I think you're well on your way to a successful upgrade. As for blue vs. black backgrounds, blue is said to give more "depth" to the tank. However, I didn't like how the blue background looked when coralline algae was growing on the back glass panel. You'd have to stay on top of scraping off coralline algae. To me at least, the black background gives a more "modern" look, although that's JMO. Besides the aesthetics, one possible benefit of a blue background is slightly more light reflecting into the tank.

The T5 Q&A thread should have all your answers for lighting. I'd look into a combination of ATI bulbs, Gieseman mid-day, and GE 6500.

I see lots of build threads on my local RC forum, as well as the Reef Discussion forum.

 

[Buzz1329]

The tank sounds great!

+1 on the RO/DI.

If you are planning on keeping SPS with a tank that deep, you may want to consider metal halides.

If you're going sumpless, you probably want to invest in a good HOT protein skimmer, like an SWC or Reef Octopus. Or if you're handy, you may want to check out You tube or the gl*******s website for information and supplies to drill the tank yourself. While you can certainly get by without one, a sump would give you a lot more options for protein skimmers and other equipment you may to add.

Have fun.

 

[TheAquatect]

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies already. I'll check out the lights thread for guidance on bulbs. And it looks like black will win out for me for a background color.

I'll try to clarify my thoughts on the other points brought up.

SPS Coral: no real plans for SPS..just LPS and Soft coral, thus the T5 lighting over MH.

Protein Skimmer: Initially I am not planning on running a skimmer because I do not want to pull out things like coralline spores or the like. I want the tank to mature. Also, I plan on a very light bio-load for this tank..very few fish. I prefer and value a lightly stocked tank, something i got used to following the Walstad method for FW. Now as I understand it, in that scenario I would not need a skimmer BUT I am planning ahead and will still have an option to add one after I add the refugium. My primary concern driving this choice is the initial establishment of the tank and enough micro organic life to support the corals and other fauna.

Water (RO): This was a big interest for me. I read all the points on RO and I see the value but I was very curious about the real downside to treated Tap water so i tried it out in my Nano.

Ha! it feels like I just admitted a dirty secret but it helped me really understand a few things. Honestly, the past three months have been really good on tap water. no out of control diatom blooms and a natural progression from brown to green algae has taken place. But nothing compared to the horror stories I have read. Now I know all tap water is not created equal and we have some pretty decent tap water where I live, hard..low phosphate/silicate, etc.. so that is what urged me to try it.

I was going to save this for another thread but I am trying to see if a moderate growth (aka managed) is a good thing for the tank ecosystem supporting the various snails and herbivorous fish I was considering. In the end...I wont balk at getting an RO unit but the science geek in me says hold out a bit more and see if this helps with phytoplankton concentrations for coral?

 

[OregonReefer]

If you want to avoid pests and such I'd steer clear of IPSF... I had many DOA critters, some parts of the package where a total rip-off plus I had the added bonus of bubble algae and apstaisa for my $100andSomething purchase.

The issue was not resolved to my satisfaction.

Will not buy there again

 

[James77]

SPS Coral: no real plans for SPS..just LPS and Soft coral, thus the T5 lighting over MH.

That tek will be able to keep SPS pretty well, even to about halfway down. Worst part of typical Tek lights is lack of cooling, if you can point a computer fan across the bulbs, it will up light output by 30% or so.

Protein Skimmer: Initially I am not planning on running a skimmer

I would really consider having one at or near startup. Once nutrient problems and the resulting algae happens, it is a PITA to get rid of. Best to not let it grab foot hold....RO/DI water for mixing and top off also helps greatly. You will not affect the startup pods or other needed life much if at all.

Now I know all tap water is not created equal and we have some pretty decent tap water where I live, hard..low phosphate/silicate, etc.. so that is what urged me to try it.

I have decent tap water as well....number 2 in the whole country. It is a gamble.....you are also playing with stuff that may build up overtime like copper from copper water lines.....
Its a gamble.....one that may work or may not

 

[TheAquatect]

So I took all your suggestions and decided to research the RO/DI thing a bit more and it seems it is NOT as complicated as i originally thought so I WILL be doing RO/DI from the start.
Along with salt mix, it seems the only other thing i should include with RO/DI is a 2 part dose like b ionic? From what i see this should cover it?

I had been looking and assuming I needed all this crap like calc reactor etc.. and seemed excessive.

 

[BassMekanik]

You need a drilled tank. Having an overflow box was a total nightmare for me. It's better to start off with a drilled tank instead of getting one setup without it and realizing you need it.

 

[TheAquatect]

You need a drilled tank.

And that is exactly why I ordered the 3000 gph glass-holes overflow kit. My tank is not drilled on the bottom and its tempered so drilling the back is the answer.

 

[TheAquatect]

Just got my glass-holes 3000 overflow kit. Very impressed with the quality. Need to get a dart and the tek lights and then start building. In the mean time I am planning out the install and a custom algae scrubber. It's hard to stay calm. Lol

 

[TheAquatect]

The feedback has been super helpful and I am convinced that if I continue to research, my plans will change and I will never get anything actually done! I am ready to pull the trigger on the equipment for my "final" plan so let me know what you guys think.

Tanks:
150 gal. (48x24x30) DT : LPS and Soft coral dominant with LIGHT fish load

• rock wall on 3 sides
• roughly 75 lbs dry BRS eco rock for aquascaping
• DSB
• 3000 GPH glass-holes overflow (2 2in drains)
• 3/4" pvc/loc line returns run over the top and pipe hidden by the rock wall
• intalled in-wall facing our family room, from a closet that will be the equipment room. it has AC/Heat and depending on the need, I can vent to the garage if needed.

29 and 10 Gal QT/Hospital tanks

• bare bottom
• PVC hide doles
• HOB filter without media for circulation

Infrastructure:
Water:

• RO/DI with float shut off
• ATO from 20 Gal Brute

Sump:

• 40 Gal Breeder
• 20+ pounds of live rock rubble
• integrated horizontal algea turf scrubber. (water will flow over ATS then into sump)
• weirs for bubble trapping
• Danner Mag-Drive Supreme 2 - 250 GPH Water Pump for sump return
• t-5 light for ATS on alt schedule from tank.
• 2 Iwaki MD-20RXT for closed loop gyre waterflow pattern (detailed in Operations section)

Lighting:

• 48" x 8 Bulb Sunlight Supply TEK Light T5 Fixture
• ATI bulbs but configuration is TBD
• Sunrise and Sunset Simulation via Apex jr
• Single strip white LED for moon simulation via Apex Jr moonlight simulator.

Hardware:

• Apex Jr controller connected to internet for remote control/notifications.
• NZXT Sentry LX for PC Fan temperature control.
• Oregon Scientific weather station monitor for temp/humidity in closet. Seems like overkill maybe but i have it so I might as well use it.

Operations:

• Gyre waterflow pattern. I will alternate between the 2 Iwaki MD-20RXT's with roughly 30 minutes per pump during the day, via Apex Jr Wavemaker function, and the sump pump will run slow current at night.
• I will not be running a skimmer and will be letting the ATS take on that role.
• Dosing b-ionic 2-part manually till I get tired and add a auto dosing project to my list.
• Due to the light fish load I will be doing minimal, small water changes every 90 days or so, roughly 5%, unless conditions dictate otherwise.

I think that about covers it. Dont think I missed anything but I am sure you guys will let me know. As far as the plumbing goes, with 2 2in drains from the overflow, I am planning on 1 to feed the iwakis on the CL and one dialed back to about 40 gph to feed the ATS and sump.

 

[BigCountry74]

You need a drilled tank. Having an overflow box was a total nightmare for me. It's better to start off with a drilled tank instead of getting one setup without it and realizing you need it.

I disagree. My first salt build was a 135g. And I have had zero issues/problems with my eshopps PF-800 overflow box in a simple close loop system. I have no drills at all in the DT. Tank has been up and running for almost 3 months.

 

[OregonReefer]

Skimmers and ATS do NOT do the same thing

An ATS creates an area to grow algae on to remove PO4 from the water column.

Skimmers remove small particulate matter like fish poo.

 

[TheAquatect]

Skimmers and ATS do NOT do the same thing

An ATS creates an area to grow algae on to remove PO4 from the water column.

Skimmers remove small particulate matter like fish poo.

I certainly don't disagree with what you said. Typical plant nutrient uptake will include PO4, NO3, and plants will usually willingly take up NH3 and NH4 for the nitrogen but high levels of NH3 and NH4 will cause plant death. From research I have read thus far, the jury is still out on definitive NO2 uptake by plants but studies I've read show plants will take up NH3/NH4 and in their absence, NO2 then NO3, in that order, for their nitrogen needs.

Now regarding the skimmer, you are again correct but I have read observations on the secondary effects of ats around trapping of particulates within the algae and this is what i am basing my plan on. Now I know this is nowhere near the effectiveness of a good skimmer but except for yellow water, I think there is good value is leaving DOC in the water column. I have not really seen any major discussions about DOC being bad for the reef other that aesthetics of water clarity and color. In the case of yellowing water, a short run of carbon should clear it up. If there are any good threads on the subject I would love to read them.

I am also doing a bit of an experiment in the case of the skimmer, with my 10 gal nano. 1 clown, 1 royal gramma, 4 turbo snails, 1 coral banded shrimp, a torch coral, some mushrooms and a monti cap....without a skimmer and only top off, no water change to date. At the 6 month mark things are thriving, 0 nitrates and a small patch of GHA on a rock about the size of a dime is all I have to show for it. I'm sure not everyone would chance the approach but thus far it seems pretty sound to me and my proposed setup.